[TNMC]

Throughout my life, people have been - in varying degrees - really surprised (with negative AND postive reactions), bewildered, disbelieving, annoyed, you name it... when they discover that I've been in bands, worked for bands, composed and recorded music and written lyrics. Sometimes to the point where it radically alters their perception of me, and not always in a good way. I think I must be the kind of person that people think is easy to pigeonhole, and then when they get the shock of finding out what I do (I also write fiction too) they get upset because THEY got me wrong. I'm definitely not one of the clique - never have been - and socially, it's not that I'm a tool, it's just that I don't usually give a f++k about what people think of me.
I do enjoy the look on people's faces though when they find out about the tunes with Liam and the writing. How does it/has it affect(ed) you guys? Spill all! It's bound to be good.  

Andy from Neverwas

[massa]

Well...that's why I joined the forum, to be in the same place as others who know what it feels like. None of my friends are artists or creative.

When I tell people that I want to be a songwriter they give me a funny look. They evidently don't think I'll make it. I find this quite funny as these people have NEVER heard anything I've written! My ex-partner knew I worked on my music a lot, yet never once asked to hear it, and so never did. When people hear my music they think it's beautiful and I've made a few people cry. That's the aim - emotional reaction. Music is so personal to me. There's definitely a part of my heart in each of my songs. I need to have someone else connect with that part, then it is not wasted. I have a hard time talking about and expressing my music and that's the reason. It's a part of me.

I got a look of pure disgust when I left my >50 grand a year job to pursue my dream of music. A lot of people think it is a dream, but I don't care about that. It's my reality. I feel really blessed to be able to put my feelings into music and have an outlet for my creativity.

It scares people when others follow their dreams. They think, hmmm what dreams have I got to follow. And there is always the threat of someone making a living doing what they love and becoming extremely wealthy. Which of course will make them feel inadequate.

Some people won't want to see you hurt if it all goes wrong, so will discourage you. However, what's the alternative, to never try and be stuck in a dead-end day job wishing the clock to count faster till retirement. I think not.

Don't die with your music inside of you.

[TNMC]

It scares people when others follow their dreams. They think, hmmm what dreams have I got to follow. And there is always the threat of someone making a living doing what they love and becoming extremely wealthy. Which of course will make them feel inadequate.

Some people won't want to see you hurt if it all goes wrong, so will discourage you. However, what's the alternative, to never try and be stuck in a dead-end day job wishing the clock to count faster till retirement. I think not.

Don't die with your music inside of you.

I see where you're coming from dude. Being creative is the only thing I'm good at, and, for that matter, the only career option that I would ever want to pursue with any real passion. Things are now starting to change, but that thing still exists - certainly in Northern Ireland - where people will say to you "yeah, the music is alright, but why don't you go and get a proper job?"
Massa, you say that none of your friends are musical/creative... I spent different periods of my life being around people who think that if you don't have at least one conversation a day about football or who you wouldn't mind shagging then you must be a raging homo. Music and actually being musical was just not on the "Conversation for blokes" list.
I've never felt that it was something I should hide from people though, and as a result, it has, on occasions, created a distance between me and the people I had to spend time with. However, that's not my fault. I'm proud of what I do - as I think we all should be here on the forum - and I occasionally even trick people into giving me their opinion... like if someone comes to my house and I put on a few of our tunes while we're having a cuppa and and a conversation and sooner or or later they might say "who's that?" and I'll reply "Why, is it no good?" and they usually give you an honest opinion, because they don't know it's you!
But I'm waffling now... back to the point: I enjoy what I do in the same way a dentist I know enjoys pulling teeth and a car mechanic I know enjoys fixing cars. I do music; so what. No big deal. I don't really care about fame or money (although it would be the ideal thing to earn a living from it). The thing I get most out of music is hearing that it means something to somebody somewhere. I've no doubt that I'll die someday and be more or less forgotten, but hopefully I'll have left at least one tune behind that will enrich people's lives a little bit.

[hofnerite]

wow, I can relate to a lot of the above posts!

No one has ever taken my musical abilities seriously. My dad used to just take the p*ss when I said what I wanted to do. Part of my ambition is all about proving these people wrong, even though my dad has passed away I still want to prove him wrong. All my mates still laugh when I say I want to be a professional songwriter. My other half takes it a bit more seriously but has still never heard any of my songs, we have been together for 7 years. Not one person (apart from my old bandmates) have ever said that I have songwriting ability of any level. That's pretty hard to take.

I guess that this negativity all around me actually makes me strive for near-perfection and that's not a bad thing in songwriting so I take it all as a positive and I know in my heart that over the last 15 years I have improved as a songwriter considerably and I know, I just know that I can do this if I put my mind to it. I don't want to come across as a kind of nutty X-Factor wannabe, and deep down, I know, well I think that this is not wasted effort on my part. I have doubts everytime someone laughs at my ambition but I know I need to keep going with it. At least with songwriting there's no cut-off age I suppose!

[hofnerite]

Massa, that's pretty inspiring stuff in your post. Leaves me quite emotional!

[Paul]

What a great, thought provoking post!  I'd say that throughout my life I've felt more than a little awkard about pursuing my songwriting ambitions. I don't know what most of my friends and family think about my songwriting obsession.  If I had to guess, I'd say that they'd be surprised at what I write about, the thoughts that I have and my willingness to openly express my thoughts  through my writing.  If they were to observe how passionately I pursue my goal of writing, they might say ''Why?'  I write because it helps me to make sense of the world in which I live.  I've always believed that I had enough ability to be succesful, though I think that my chances of achieveing success are slim.  Increasingly, my goal is to be as good as I possibly can be.  I want to communicate what it is like to be here, my feelings, my dreams, my fears. I feel a sense of achievement through my writing that I don't in any other activity that I am involved in.  I  often want to stop writing but won't. I feel that I am pursuing the impossible goal of perfection, which I don't believe I can achieve in any other pursuit but might just do so if I can continue to write.  Songwriting is for me, both a blessing and a curse. I often want to leave it behind and get on with the business of living, without recording my experiences. I've played football and spent a great deal of time down at the pub with wiith the lads and got the impression that they were bamboozled about my writing and musical ambitions. I've occassionally spoken about my passion for writing at work and some have been genuinely interested, though I don't make a point of spreading the word as I feel this isn't always the case.  I write for my my band and have known the singer and bass player for over twenty years.  They love the music that I write and think that I have genuine potential to be a succesful commercial writer. That's a great compliment.  You never know, that might be so!  My wife knows that I'll always write.  It's not of significant importance to her and I am grateful for her understanding.  I could go on but I think that the picture is fairly clear.  Songwriting isn't really a common activity and therefore the reasons for writing aren't fully understood.  If you enjoy writing and it benefits you in any way, stick with it.  If you do achieve success, then, it won't seem such an odd activity to those that don't quite understand what all the fuss is about.  I don't mean earning a ridiculous amount of money from writing a hit song. Wouldn't it be great to simply earn a living from a skill that you've developed, having devoted so much time, passion and energy to?  

This is a great post Andy, Well done!

[tone]

Nice thread, this. I'm surprised by how many of you feel a little alienated and misunderstood because of your songwriting. I've always been surrounded by musicians (chosen to surround myself with musicians) so I've never felt misunderstood or judged for wanting to be a songwriter.

Like Paul, my real goal is to be the best songwriter I can be. Sometimes I want this to include some recognition of my work, and sometimes I'm not at all bothered. Having an outlet for my songs has become increasingly important to me, and being plugged into the local music scene has become a part of my songwriting journey.

Maybe I'm thick-skinned, or simply not on the wavelength of people who don't understand the songwriting impulse, but I've never really felt judged as strange for wanting to do this. If people haven't understood, I haven't noticed!

As for making money, I've been broke for long enough to stop caring. I always seem to have enough to buy food, so I at least have the energy to write songs. This is enough for now!

[TNMC]

Thanks for contributing and enjoying this post, guys. It all goes to show what I've known all along... even with the odds stacked against us, we just keep on doing it!
And it's sad too, though, to realise how difficult a business it can be for so many to get into... I mean, my other half was always interested in making clothes, so she went to uni, got a degree in clothing technology and now she works for a clothing manufacturer/distributor. (I know that sounds over-simplified, but you get the gist, right?) And what do we get? An industry that makes no real secret about being sexist, age-ist, greedy, corrupt beyond measure, basically... a permanent battle between art and cash. I don't wanna have to wade through all that crap, I just wanna write some good tunes and get paid for it!

Oh, and P.S. do/have any of you ever meet/met people who seem to think you're only doing this because you want to get 'famous'? I don't know how many times in the past I've had to explain to people that I only want to create music for other people to do... which is usually met with a few moments of blankness... it's like they can't grasp the idea that you can be creative without needing to stand in front of an adoring audience (although if they want to give me an Ivor Novello award someday, I will be grinning so wide that I'll make the f++kin' Cheshire cat from Alice In Wonderland look like a manic depressive!)

[Dutchbeat]

good post, Andy!

songwriting can just be fun as a hobby in it's own right, i find the process of making music and recording it rewarding in itself, so no need to become famous or anything to be able to enjoy this hobby

I cannot understand that people go fishing or running, but some people seem to enjoy that very much, so that is fine, but my hobby is making music

i have been playing on an almost daily basis since i was eight, so I don't know many people who don't know that that is my hobby.

Perhaps they think it is strange or completely pointless, but luckily they just let me 

[Sonic-r]

People who aren't musical don't currently know what I do. I moved from creating compilation tapes and cds of other people's music to trying to make my own. And, egotistical as this might sound, I like listening to my own music. I write what I like to hear from others. I have a friend who's learning to play the guitar and she listens to what I do, but being a 100% metal head she doesn't necessarily appreciate it, but is still objective in her criticism. And a guy I work alongside plays the banjalele (not at work) and when he talks to people about it he always drops it into the conversation that I make music too.

So, I think if your like Tone and surrounded by musicians the isolation is less marked. It's only recently that I thought maybe there's more to this than just creating my own music that I listen to in the car. At Christmas I watched a dvd of Laura Pausini in concert at the San Siro. During one of the songs, Disparame Dispara, I wondered what the songwriter must feel hearing their song performed by someone like her in a setting like that. That's now my ambition. And I've created for myself a five year plan to achieve it. To hear just one of my songs performed by a major artist before I kick the bucket will be something to feel satisfied about.

When you get the itch you have to scratch it.

[marianheawood]

This is an interesting thread and something I can relate to, especially the first few posts. Songwriting and composing has been an important part of my life for reasons which would be another story. I have found that talking about my songwriting to people I know etc. has made them go quite funny/peculiar. They very often clam up and ask nothing  about my interest and don't show any wish to listen to anything I've written, so my songs and music are not shared.
I put on some shows in the past for charity and included finding, local singers for my songs and that was the best way to share my work. I then had a lot of pleasure from coaching the singers, and then hearing them performed to an audience. That was great because the singers were wanting to be part of the songs.
It can be hurtful when people turn their back on what could be an interest that they could share in. It has made interesting reading for me, on here, to see the possible reasons why people behave so strange, and enlightened me somewhat. I have got to the point of feelings of guilt about my songwriting. I dare not mention it to anyone when in conversation in case they don't speak to me again! Marian.

[mihkay]

I've always loved music and have played in bands since I was in my teens, but I've only started writing in the last few years.
I've found that most people I know (non musicians) don't take my interest seriously. I can hardly blame them....how many of us know a famous songwriter personally?  And if you're not famous (on television) you can't be serious. 
At my age (mid 40's) the young up and coming chaps are writing their own material (good on them) and the active players my age are covering ABBA, Thin Lizzy or BB King and don't want original material. 
So to answer your question. "How do people react to you being musically creative/in a band/writing lyrics?".......Nobody cares......So bugger them I'll do all it myself! 

[marianheawood]

That's a great way to think   I believe that 'Who cares' is a good attitude as long as it goes with self-belief.

[rossanne]

Wow, what beautiful posts. I'm glad I came back here, and will try and stay this time!

Oh, and P.S. do/have any of you ever meet/met people who seem to think you're only doing this because you want to get 'famous'?)

Very rarely, but when it comes up it seems to be assumed, rather than a question. It's annoying because I don't want that, I'd be happy being my own label (I say that now!), so getting quite a lot of the royalites, but with a relatively small amount of people. So I could do music full-time or at least go part-time with my job. I don't think I could cope with fame. I think I'd go a bit nuts.

The thing that REALLY annoys me are people (mostly friends) who glamourise my music. I'm sure they're just trying to be nice, but it annoys me when they use it as an example of 'why I'm an interesting person' (sometimes coupled with why they think they're not). That's pretty hurtful because

a) would I not be interesting enough without music?
b) I feel like it's making me a boring person - the more time I spend on music, the more isolated I get from the people around me, and I don't think any of them see that aspect of it
c) it's almost as if my friends use me as a stick to beat themselves with sometimes, as if my sh*ty little cafe gigs mean more than anything they've ever done.
d) it's like they automatically assume that I want to be 'the great i am'. Not in a nasty way, cos they're my friends. But sometimes they pander to me as if they think that's what I want from them.

That hurts. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it, and I need to see a therapist!

Who knows :/

[tone]

Very interesting comments Rossanne (and lovely to have you back on the forum by the way.)

The whole fame thing really bothers me, too, and I see it a lot of the time around some of the people I meet at gigs etc. They seem to suffer from this kind of X factor mentality where they believe wanting fame is the only conceivable reason anyone would want to put themselves through playing music live. They forget that musicians love music more than anyone else! And why isn't that a good enough reason for playing on its own.

I mean, realistically, it's unlikely that many musicians are completely immune from the desire to get attention, but that doesn't make it the primary motivator. In fact, I've noticed this with songwriters I meet. It seems to me like the better the songs, the more philosophical the person is about these matters. Songwriting in itself is enough of a journey without adding fame into the mix.

I applaud your desire to create your own label. I think it's a great way to retain control of your writing and of course your workload. Maybe it means you'll sacrifice a potentially larger audience, but you'll command a much higher percentage of revenue if you're not at the mercy of some avaricious label (whose business models often seem to resemble that of debt collectors...)

I'm going to answer your questions now:
a - you (this goes for everyone) are perfect by virtue of having been born. You're interesting too, regardless of whether or not you play music. Some people just can't get over the novelty of it (and the whole X factor thing)
b - songwriting doesn't make you boring. I agree, it can isolate you sometimes, but it gives you a depth of insight and consideration for life and the people in it which more than makes up for the isolation.
c - lack of self esteem is not reserved exclusively for musicians (although we're usually the best at it!)
d - I think I pretty much spent the rest of my post dealing with this one. As for your friends pandering to you, I don't really know what to say. If you've tried being honest with them, there's not much else you can do. Therapy might be the only option!