[IrishGuy]

I'll try to keep this short:

I occasionally sit down and mess around on a guitar and make something good, or worthy to be an original song at least.. even if it's just a riff, I can eventually develop it further.

Now, I like to think that lyrics and music come from two different realms and the art in composing heavily involves mixing them together to complement each other. Right?

My problem arises when lyrics/lyrical themes/lyrical rhythm/lyrics melodies interfere with the song or riff that I've made.

For example, if I came up with something good enough on guitar, how do I decide what theme it is, maybe on how it "sounds" (happy/sad) but I often find that however I add the lyrics, the lyrics drag the music in a different direction and there's this constant battle between letting the lyrics or music win.

It;s hard to explain but hopefully someone who was once a beginner understand?

How do I decide where the song...goes?

That goes for structure, theme, etc..

[tone]

I know exactly what you're talking about. I would say that it's very rare for the lyric to exactly compliment the original 'idea' of the music, at least when I'm writing songs.

But I wouldn't say there's a battle between letting the music or lyrics win.

Once the music is written, it needs a lyric to be complete. If you compromise and settle for the wrong lyric, your song is in jeopardy (IMO). But a piece of music is more resilient than you may think. Once you have a lyric that works, and feels honest, you'll be amazed how flexible your piece of music will be as you make subtle changes to accommodate the words.

Sure, it will be different, but it will be the same piece of music.

If you're looking for advice, I would say this: don't separate the music and the lyrics in your mind. Once you have a melody and a rough arrangement, don't think of it as that part being 'finished'. It's a framework to hang your lyrics on. And how they turn out will effect the way the music part of the song works.

Step back and allow the music to be 'in progress' until the words are finished, at which point the whole song can be finished as a single element.

How you decide where the song goes is personal to you. I generally find that I need a strong idea as to what the song is 'about' before I can finish it. Otherwise I'm just clutching a slightly abstract lyrical ideas and trying to fit them into my musical idea. This works once in a while, but they tend not to be my strongest songs.

I hope some of that helps

[S.T.C]

It sounds like you're writing lyrics and music separately and then trying to marry them together, i would suggest that you find your hook and sing it first,,then add some chords that are sympathetic to it ...thats what i do when i want to do my own stuff..other than writing lyrics.

[Maxim]

It's a tough topic to try and give a solution to, since everyone does this differently. If you want to try and go about it with a certain technique i suggest you try expressing the meaning and feelings of the lyrics with sounds. To find a good basis to build upon i suggest deciding on a strumming/picking pattern, the tempo, wether you play your instrument gently or "brutal", loud or quiet, if you want the tempo to change somewhere and so on. All those factors are the floor for your lyrics to dance on and once they started dancing a melody might arise :p

As you see even this somewhat technical approach isn't exactly clear, but i hope it can give you an idea of what i mean.

Of course, if you just want to write a song that people will like it's rather easy to decide on a melody and chords aaand lyrics, since by now one could basically write a tutroial on how to make music for crowds.


Have fun and good luck,
Daniel

[mickeytwonames]

Like filming a lot ends up on the cutting room floor. Good comedians cut stuff if it doesn't get a laugh. Quite often a riff or a good line is the way into the work and ends up being sacrificed. One has to be ruthless.

[arteg]

Matching lyrics to music is, in my opinion, much easier than creating music to match lyrics. When you have a riff or some melody, you can sing it and put some words to it. Then you are playing around with those words and put some more words until you get something meaningful.

[DevyE]

Some interesting insights to assist with your conundrum IrishGuy, as others say there are various approaches. Maybe I'm the odd one out here but i need lyrics to put music to otherwise the song will have no substance and for me will just be boring, and there's nothing worse than playing a boring song 


After reading your post I believe you are thinking too hard ( I guess we've all been there) and pushing yourself into a corner where you believe everything you write/play must be a masterpiece and that's too much pressure! Write something for fun just for practice, then another for fun etc....you get the idea and if you're not the next voice of a generation you can join the club but at least you'll be enjoying yourself.


And I do have a bone to pick with you IrishGuy as you said "I occasionally sit down and mess around on a guitar", well until you pick up the guitar every day because you want to then it won't happen!