The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Bar => Topic started by: James Nighthawk on December 31, 2012, 01:15:31 PM
-
Here is a discussion point for you all
There seems to be a bit of a split on the review wall at the moment which is making me feel disinclined to review a lot of the posts here. I used to try and review everyone, but I now find myself selecting by username, checking their recent posting history before bothering. This upsets me, and I am the one doing it!!
There seems to be 2 types of member at the moment:
(1) The type that posts their own song, and then spends time reviewing half a dozen (or more) other artist's songs each week, keeping the board moving nicely, boosting posts for everyone. They will then respond to their own post, but, because they review others regularly, it is pushed down a few notches quickly often by themselves.
(2) The type that posts their own song, then either does not review anyone else, or simply drops a few cursory lines on couple of songs. They then respond on their own thread multiple times, at length. Boosting their own song, and giving little back of any actual use.
I am not having a moan, btw. I am not complaining, as I can get round the system with a couple of mouse clicks. But, what I don't want to happen is a divide between members that are regular, reviewing each other, and ignoring the passing people. This will make the place "cliquey" and unwelcoming. I try to avoid doing that, so long as these less regular lads/ladettes do play fair when they do drop along.
Just a small handful of reviews during the time their post is active surely isn't too much to ask? This place only works by sharing, it is a community!
I know that some others on here have been riled by the "Look at my song!!" brigade. I just wonder if there is any way to balance things a little better?
Thoughts anyone?
PS, I understand the irony that mostly regulars will be reading this! LOL
PPS, An early, Happy new Year to you all. Let's all make 2013 a special year for wonderful music!!!
JNx
-
An interesting discussion point
Off the top of my head here are some thoughts...
I think newbies to the forum probably see the "old guard" regulars as a kind of review panel
I completely understand this as it can be intimidating sharing your songs, often for the first time, and be expected to review/critique other people
Perhaps each new member should get 2 "freebies" before they are expected to post reviews on other people's songs
Another approach could be to make new members go through a form of "induction" before being allowed to post
Eg mentors from a "panel" of existing members converse with the new member (via email or a separate forum) to "teach" / coach them how to review a song properly and take them through the posting guidelines
Once they have gone through this "bootcamp" they will know what is expexted of them and will then be allowed to post their own stuff
This is probably overkill for this forum BUT a gaming "clan" I used to play with had a very similar system and it worked really well - everyone was welcome but you had to jump through some hoops before becoming a full member
This separated the "wheat from the chaff" and ensured the whole membership was committed - ie you couldn't just turn up and join
I would also like to know if there is an easy way to see how many songs a member has posted against the number of reviews they have given - this would be an interesting stat to guage participation in the community
-
Hi and Happy new year.
May I add a third group, those that review songs but don't post any?
I actually don't know if that happens as I've only been a member a short while, but I could see how there may be some with "Cowell" syndrome that feel they are a good and qualified judge.
For myself, I have listened to a few song posts and have been surprised by the high quality of most which show up the shortcomings of my own efforts and therefore don't feel able to comment in any meaningfull way until I have posted my own.
Dino :-\
-
Hi James,
This issue has been discussed many times. I don't really think that we'll find a solution that everyone is happy with. I too think that there is a divide. Personally I tend to review when I'm posting material and I think that's fair, though I sometimes wonder if there's resentment that I don't spend more time on the forum. Whatever your approach, there's always someone who won't be happy with the number of forum contributions that a member makes and will interpret their motives for reviewing or for that matter, their style of reviewing. Time spent on the forum is related to personal commitments that we all have. It's difficult to please everyone. I try not to be too critical of those who contribute only a little and simply accept that some will be more active than others and have their own reasons for their level of involvement.
I hope that everyone enjoys the new year's eve celebrations and has a fantastic new year! :)
-
All forums are an extension of the play ground ,don`t you know. :D
-
its the same old problem isnt it ..the more involved you get the more attached you get & the more you hold something dear & the more protective you get
i either get cross with people who i think abuse this forum & tell them of or i get cross & i do what im doing at the moment which is get disilusuioned & think about starting somewhere else
i want a home & you cant have a home with no doors where strangers can just wander in & do what they like!
before i came here i was on a very small forum started by friends & no one else ever joined & evryone knew how to behave & new each other but it was just to small & quiet for me & i wanted more attenton & more going on
i need something in the middle
-
Good point re a middle ground Tina. The Bhuddists would be proud ;)
And good points Paul. It is ALL about time.
When I review a song I listen all the way through, sometimes twice, and then try to compose a decent review. I spend 3-15 minutes per review. Why should I bother spending my time on people that don't give any of theirs?!
Paul, you review more than you post and always tend to post a review that is considered. You are very much in the "good boy" camp ;D In fact there are loads of people that are!!
For the moment I will just continue as I do...reviewing those that share and skipping over those that don't make any effort. Any newbies get a free pass of course. By reviewing them I would hope they'd be encouraged to share with others
A ratio of 3:1 is all I would ask... for every song you post, review at least 3 others. 15 minutes time to get a few reviews of your own; too much to expect?
But as has been mentioned: By enforcing a minimum ratio, people will just spam heartless "sounds ace!" reviews to meet the criteria. That is no better!
I think this place works fairly well as is. I notice the selfish ones tend to disappear soon enough, once they realise they get little to no reviews.
December might be a funny month, people with extra free time
Here's to a caring, sharing January ;D ;D
-
I think you can tell those who 'get' it, and those who don't, quite quickly. I do find myself looking at the number of posts/recent review posts of names I don't recognise. As for those one liner 'nice song' reviews, from those who then proceed to waffle endlessly in reply to their own song reviews, I can't help but think they didn't even bother to finish listening to my song, so I tend to avoid reviewing them. Maybe Little Bill should gently nudge that type of member as well as the frequent multi song people. He's a force for good and people do seem to listen.. or leave :)
-
Think your flogging a dead horse, it`s going to be an eternal problem...unless some draconian rules are imposed....and who wants that,
I think things are ok at the moment...newbies are made clear on the posting rule.......ignore those that you think infringe your sense of right and wrong etiquette....for my part i listen to pretty much everything ..even from the occasional sojourner.
-
@hab yup I do a similar thing, and it generally seems the done thing.
@songs you are right, there is no perfect answer, but the occasional round table on the system can't help, you never know when new ideas could come from a brainstorm
For instance the welcome email seems to have helped as has Little Bill. All things that appeared after the last round of discussion.
Plus having an active discuss might spur the naughty boys and girls. Who knows ;D
-
Hey Guys, just to be sure for myself...in these discussions there is always something about people giving only short remarks or comments...you know like just saying: i enjoyed listening to this song....or .....i think you have a great voice etd
etc. I do that a lot, and i want to continue to do that if that is ok
if i listen to somebody's song and i like it, or i like something particular about it i just like to be able to express that as a compliment to a fellow songwriter, and just that without giving tips for improvement
i don't think this topic is about that issue, but sometimes these short compliment posts are made to look like "cheap"" in discussions like this, as they are meant to just increase posts before putting a song of yourself up??
i think listening to a song and saying that you like it, can be constructive and encouraging for the one who put the music on display.
What i trying to say is, let us not make it too difficult to send a reply, i mean that you have to have very good advice or know where the other should go. Some know more about music and recording, some write (reviews) more easily than others etc. I come here mainly to listen to music of others and give my (rather non-educated) opinion, so often i just have to rely on whether i like a song or certain aspects of a song. And i come here for collaborations (don't underestimate how useful this forum is for many to connect with other songwriters), and i do like to hear what other people think of my own attempts once in a while. But I don't hink there should be to a short of high treshold for reviewing, but of course the people that do get into detail and give very concrete tips are extremely helpful for others. But just giving an opinion in terms of liking or not liking a piece is ok too in my opinion (and yes, i know what the forum guidlines say ::) ::), this is just my opinion
before you know it we are reviewing the quality of the reviews and not the songs itself ;D ;D ;D
but clearly this forum is needs people to participate, just putting one's own song up for review and not paying any attention to other people's music is not helping this forum at all
-
aww Dutchy, I doubt many, if any, have a problem with you, I certainly don't! ;D
Its becomes clear when someone posts short reviews that are actually from the right place. If they like the song, and that's all they have to say, then awesome.... The issue is linked with those that just throw off a couple of half-assed "cool song bro" posts after what is likely a cursory listen, just so it looks better on their profile history. You, and others, clearly listen and participate. That is the difference.
If all you there is to say is "loved the song" or "great vibes" then go for it! Particularly in cases like yours where you do write more on plenty of occasions.
Hell, sometimes a short review is all a good song needs. Or a very bad one ;) :D
It's participation that matters.
And let's be clear here.... this forum is on the whole MILES ahead of others that involve personal content, and let's keep it so 8) ;D 8)
-
Good points James, and I do know where you're coming from. From my own point of view as a new member (and I am echoing what Dutchbeat has already said), I'm aware of the the posting guidelines, but I'm fairly inexperienced in terms of songwriting, and certainly recording, so usually a short review is all I genuinely have to offer. To counter that I'm not a very prolific songwriter so eventually (I have only been here for around a month and have largely been offline over Christmas) my short reviews will far outweigh my own postings! I have been guilty of responding to my own posts, but this was more out of politeness to say thanks for reviewing. I'm sure there is a balance to be struck here. I've not had the 'pleasure' of a comment from Little Bill yet so presumably I'm adhering to the guidelines, but if not I'd certainly appreciate a PM to that effect. This is a very supportive and friendly forum and I'd like to contribute to that rather than detract from it. The other side is that there are some really great songs on here which I take great pleasure in listening to, and I'm sure even the more experienced songwriters appreciate some sort of feedback, however succinct, as a barometer of how their song would be received generally?
As a possible solution, could you have a 'newbies' review section (sub forum) where posts are deleted after a week, or are only allowed a handful of replies, sort of like a Review Forum-lite? Then if users have participated as expected in reviewing other folks' songs they can graduate to the Review forum-proper? I also don't see any problem with enforcing a minimum quota, but you also need to look at the quality of the reviews to discount the 'cool song bro' comments, although maybe this is extra overhead for the mods? Is there a facility on the forum to flag replies as inappropriate so that mods can be alerted to the kind of behaviour you are talking about? As a newbie myself, I wouldnt have objected to some sort of enforced minimum quota before being allowed to post a song for review.
Just my two penneth. Happy New Year to all!
-
>:(
I'm really fed up with this sort of discussion. When I first came to this forum, I posted a song for review straight away didn't introduce myself I don't whether there were rules but noone berated me for it.
Now we have rules and guidelines and other stuff and it just pisses me off. As I said before, people who appreciate the forum hang around and get involved those that don't, and only post to get a review of their song, mainly disappear and after all it's up to members if they want to comment on these members' songs. I just don't see the problem.
We have enough rules in our 'normal' lives. We all have different commitments too.
I wanted to see what used to happen and looked back to June 2011 when I first joined. I just posted a song for a review and I got a response from Kaf (where is Kaf by the way?!) Dutchbeat, Paul, Ramshackles and also cheff daniel. No one had a go at me for just posting and not reviewing etc. The next day shock horror I posted another song!!! However I noticed that on the third day I got the hang of it and began reviewing - awkwardly (I still find it difficult).
I know everyone is different but the point is I immediately felt welcome. I also then found the courage to critique others' work.
There is no way that newcomers would feel welcome at this forum I think, the way it currently is.
Just my twopenneth, which I am sure won't be popular but there you go ::)
-
Oddly Flossie, I agree with a lot of your points :D
Newbies should be giving extra reign to learn by doing. And people are still joining and being welcomed this way.
But as you say, when you joined this was a smaller place, so there was no need to police at all. People had the time to review most of what was posted. With a growing board, a little more fairness is needed so songs don't just cycle out of play.
But, I don't agree with over policing, as this should still be a chilled place, and a welcoming one.
But (again!) what this place mustn't turn into is a "Check out my song" forum...lots of thread with no cross posting. As that WILL kill the place. I certainly would be less inclined to log in to such a board
As you say:
As I said before, people who appreciate the forum hang around and get involved those that don't, and only post to get a review of their song, mainly disappear and after all it's up to members if they want to comment on these members' songs. I just don't see the problem.
This is largely the case. I think December was/is a funny month. The other day when I started this thread I should have taken that into account more :)
-
well im also fed up with this sort of discussion...so fed up in fact that im not even going to argue particulerly with my friends
i am going to take abreak from this forum for a couple of months at least
this is not like a home anymore i cant stand people constently ignoring the rules or not even bothering to read them in the first place...that is just the way i am so i am leaving ..this is not a tantrum but the way things are just gets me realy cross all the time so i dont feel like taking part
theres always just so many new people & that would be ok if they respescted the place but half of them dont...i want somewhere to hang out with my friends & im happy to make new ones but if there not going to 'join the gang' then i dont need all this stress either
ive put such a lot into this forum so you decide what sort of people do you want here
-
I happen to agree with most posts/points
I am pretty relaxed about whether there are strict rules or an anything goes policy
I happen to really enjoy listening to and reviewing other people's songs (just need more time!!!) so I am not usually bothered
I am also happy with the reviews I get - the forum is great as a general "barometer" for songs and then I look for reviews from a handful of people as I value their opinions - so I get everything I could ever need from the forum, which is why I would be happy to jump through hoops if required
My only "bug bear" is those that turn up every now and again and post their "new single" for review, rather than looking for feedback on the song (it sounds the same but I know what I mean!)
e.g. I still think there should be a separate forum for reviewing final songs (like an NME review of a released single/albums), a separate forum for proper feedback, critique, areas to improve for "first drafts" or works in process - ie the writer is likely to make changes if they accept the feedback
The reviews can then be tailored accordingly
I would love to see a song develop, following feedback, from a work in progress, to a first draft, to a completed song
I have changed all of my songs follow feedback from here but I haven't wanted to re-bump my original post from months ago asking what people think of "the new drums" or a "new middle 8" etc.
If we all did this after each change using the existing format songs will drop down (and off) the page even quicker
I know the idea of splitting the forum down further is never well received and I do not think it is broken as it is - just an observation and contribution to the discussion
-
all points made are valid to me
i agree with Flossie that people not really participating will dropout anyway in the end, often quite quickly
simply because they are in fact not interested in an exchange of ideas with the other songwriters
or in the end nobody responds to their posts anymore
or Little Bill, or a forum member steps in
and on the other hand, it can be annoying to see new people come in once in a while
that just simply don't have that basic feeling of what is decent and reasonable
but i don't think there is anything we can do about that
ah, in stead of typing about it, and getting slow responses
THIS might be a topic where we could have a "live" meeting about ;D ;D ;D
(oh no, Dutchbeat is going to bring up the chatroom again :P :P :P)
Yes, forumites, what about a chat meeting in our own chatroom soon, about the rules, direction and future of this forum
that makes a discussion more focused, and i am very happy to chair it ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
ah, and i didn't read all the posts, i replied after James' last post after Flossie's
and the typing took so much time...(well i am dutch, ok :P :P :P)
that i din't read Tina's and Boydie's replies
just that you know
and i am tired of this discussion too, and i agree with Tina, and i can agree with all that has been said
seriously, shouldn't we take this somewhere else, have a discussion in interaction, but not in these (slow) posts that will be out there
just my two pennies (yes, that is an English expression that i have learned on this forum... ;D i hope i am using it in a correct way)
-
Like a number of people, I'm sad to see that this has become a source of unrest once again. It makes me want to give the reviews section a wide berth! :(
-
I wonder if this 'unrest' stems slightly from the fact that people are naturally cliquey. Like STC said earlier, it's the playground, people can't help it, it just is.
I find that I'm naturally drawn to reviewing songs by forum regulars and 'friends', when I see that DB or Tina or Boydie etc has posted something, I'll make time to listen and review because I respect what they've said in the past, and I like to hear how they are progressing and improving. When the board fills with songs by unknown names, I sometimes find it hard to muster the enthusiasm to spend the time listening and reviewing. Likewise, that enthusiasm to embrace new blood is greater diminished by those minority 'great song bro' replies.
Unless we start a closed forum for invited members only (which would get quite stale quite quickly) we need to make the effort to embrace the newbies and gently guide them in the ways of the community. More rules wont help, artists don't like rules. This is an open forum and it's the responsibility of each of us who like it and care about it, to ensure it stays as good as it is.
*gets off soapbox*
@Tina
Please don't leave, you are a really important member, we value your views and enjoy your humour. Your James Bond comp was awesome and the way you got everyone involved was inspired. Essex blood is pretty sparse in these parts.. :D
-
All good points
@tina, don't be going anywhere Lady, please! You bring an edge to the board that makes me smile ;D
@everyone
I only intended this thread as a DISCUSSION.
I want to clarify I wasn't moaning, I tried to make that clear in the first post!
I wanted to get it in the open because as Hab' and others have mentioned, if the board divides we ALL lose out.
An open polite discussion about how things stands was my suggestion to avoid problems, no cause them
Apologies if I misfired :'( :'(
-
james i felt this way before you started this thread ok!
& as for people who say the selfish ones disapear quick.... look at this fisherman guy & beady roller & aunt acid ..theres just loads of them who just keep on coming back
& as for the forum wises up to who abuses it i say that is nonsense.....all the new & infrequent posters arent here enuff to know & just review anybody & give these people the attention they crave
anyway im not the first big contributer to leave over this if you look back& it realy is up to you all to decide what sort of person you want here
im sad but im leaving ok
love to all
tina
xx
ps ive got FAWM all thru febraury & then i will see how i feel again
-
& as for people who say the selfish ones disapear quick.... look at this fisherman guy & beady roller & aunt acid ..theres just loads of them who just keep on coming back
Wow. They keep on coming back because they recognise this forum as one that provides truly independent and constructive feedback. This forum is not broke, so let's not all rush to fix it :-)
This forum works well because the majority of users are fair and honourable. Let's not get too upset about someone who posts 16 tracks for review yet only posts 3 reviews. Statistically, that is to be expected.
As for the "clique" element.... i'm more likely to review songs from (i) new posters; and (ii) posters who have posted a brilliant song :-))))
-
I agree...JC...was thinking about this the other night....and it struck me...that without passers-by it would feel pretty slow on here.....
lets be honest here.....a lot of the regulars, aren`t that regular...they can even disappear for a couple of months....or for ever in some cases, and so the songs posted for review slows right down.
-
Eyup ;D
-
and an Eyup from me too
whatever that may mean ;D ;D
sounds good to me
-
So I've spent a good portion of the last few months with internet troubles. That combined with my continuing lack of a band, novel that I'm working on and full-time summer job I have only popped my head in every couple of days without being able to comment. I've mostly paid attention to the lyrics board when I have logged on by the way.
What I've noticed is it's a string of Johnny Come Lately-s down there. I may be getting that wrong given that I only ever see a 'slice of life' from that board. Anyway, it raises the question for me of 'Would I rather there was no-one contributing anything down there and the more regular lyricists were stuck without getting reviews?'
I think, in all honesty, having those passers-by is actually kind of alright because they do still review a few others. Admittedly they aren't always the best reviews and they tend to be in either the 'I'll review you because you reviewed me' category or the 'I will review three people and you're not getting a review because I've done my three' category.
Basically, I think the sort of behaviour you guys are against in the reviews board (Review a bunch just so I can get mine reviewed, the leave) is a lot of what keeps the lyrics board rolling along...
-
This is a tricky one for me...
In the past few months I've become something of a chronic lurker on this forum. (Striking out on my own has made me super busy - it's either that or fail :D )
I know most of what goes on and even spend a fair bit of time on the reviews forum for someone that hasn't posted anything there for a while. I chip in on interesting discussions and of course if a mod is necessary. Which most of the time, it isn't, really.
I don't think these threads help anything on the whole.
It often seems like older members having a bit of a grumble cos "passers-by" or those deemed to be poor members are distracting attention from their songs.
I disagree with the 2 types of members. Not only because I don't think I fit into either category, but because I think many others don't either. It's a fairly sweeping generalisation.
Most replies seem to have forgotten the original post, which was not yet another jab at those just posting songs and not contributing, but an encouragement to review equally and not become "cliquey".
There is a point there. Go to the front page of the reviews sections and note which songs have the most 2 or more pages of replies....
On the other hand, there is no way to avoid it. Passer-bys are just that. They drop off a song and often dont even bother to post a follow up reply when they get a bunch of reviews. Reviewers like feedback on their reviews aswell (especially if they are doing what a review should and offer up constructive criticism/starting a discussion). It's only natural that inactive posters are going to receive inactivity.
Looking at the other side of the story...it has been suggested that newcomers should have to be more active before they post a song. This has been taken to the point where you are kind of enforcing it yourself - with this "cliquey" thing...
So this is forcing newcomers to "break" into the clique. If they are actively reviewing other peoples songs, you might still not post on their song because they are "not in the group". Even worse, if you review their song cause they reviewed yours, isn't that just promoting the "You pat my back, I'll pat yours" mentality that you should equally hate?
They could be active in other parts of the forum...but I fear that at times I might be the only one that notices it :).
The majority of discussions that get large on other parts of the forum seems to be ones like these.
I don't blame newcomers for not wanting to join in...
There are extremely interesting discussions in other parts of the forum which just seem to come to a stop when they are just getting going. Instead of moaning about the reviews forum, how about browsing a few of these interesting topics? (One of which is a first time poster - perhaps they read this discussion, got to scared to post in the reviews forum, but then suffered having almost no-one reply anyway?) :
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/the-future-for-daws-touch-screen-mixing/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/how-do-you-lay-down-your-songs/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/building-a-recording-space-is-it-worth-it/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/the-writing-process/lyrics-getting-them-to-scan-well/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/the-bar/breaking-through/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/the-bar/my-blog-music-and-production-based-musings-)/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/the-writing-process/all-these-damn-computers-(or-electronics-and-your-music)/
It is not surprising that these discussions never complain about the "contributions" or "writing process" sub forums although there are plenty of one-time posters/advertisers or people trying to promote themselves who post there....
Now I know you can just throw this right back at me, go ahead.
I think the reviews forum does quite well. The only thing these threads seem to achieve is tinam quitting :P
-
well ramshackles i cant help the way i am & i am a family person ...when you start a family maybe you will understand me better
i just popped back to see if anyone else felt the same as me & plainly no one does so ive eiether got it all wrong or i just dont belong here but looking at the reviews section again its full of first time posters plugging there song & not reading the rules & not joining in the spirit of things here ...but its also full of members saying how wonderful they are & just encoraging there bad behaviour
i just want somewhere where i feel at home & know evryone & yes new people can come in as long as they respect my/our house
i just dont want this constant abuse of the forum i love ...i feel if you love something you try to protect it
but ive got it all wrong obvuiously so i wont bother you all again
-
Is it safe to reply ;D
Give peeps a chance will ya..i think you need to move foward not backwards on this Tina..it`s not going to get better...even on other sites, you will experience the same situation .
-
stc cant you see what s happening here... ive been here longer than you & i see people joining & some getting realy involved here & making friends & contributing lots ....& then slowly loads of new people join & these older members slowly feel pushed out & they dont post as much & then they just sadly leave
well i think someone needs to point this out that this forum constantly destroys itself
& i am angry about it
-
Unless there is a closed, members only forum, new members just have to be welcomed, some will embrace it, others will abuse it, Little Bill will do his best to nudge people in the right direction.
I like it as it is, I'm not sure what could be done to make it better without closing the doors, if that happened, what then? a very slow moving reviews board and slow responses to posts.
I have a very active imagination and like to write lots, quickly. I like posting songs regularly, it keeps me driven and enthused and I enjoy the interaction between others. If there were no new blood, getting involved and posting new material, I'd have no new stuff to review and my songs, and those of other regulars would soon clutter the board up.
Maybe it's cos I'm still relatively new myself, but if it were closed and less inviting when I first looked at joining, I may not be here now, in a musical sense, as this place has brought me on leaps and bounds compared to the first 15 years of my hobby.
-
no you dont just understand im not saying no new people im saying something needs to be done to stop old people leaving!! becos they do ....therve been great people here & slowly but sureley they all drift away & post less regular or leave & i know why ...its obvious....they are pushed out & ive told you why
& im sorry if me threatning to leave has become a joke but your not going to make me shut up when im angry
-
tinam, how do you know I don't already have a family? ;)
My post wasn't a personal attack on you, so don't take it that way. It wasn't an attack on anyone.
Remember the original point of the discussion was about a feeling of "cliquey-ness" on the forum and not what to do with new members abusing the reviews system....that has been covered, a lot.
-
Go and have a look @ the original members when this site became active...pages 95 down...look @ the names....these guys are mostly long gone....who pushed them out? No one......they got bored ,moved on..gave up..who knows...
Iv`e been on here 7 months or so....and yes iv`e seen a few names that seem to have disappeared.....Kafla has been absent for nearly 2 months....maybe just having a long break,maybe just dealing with other probs...
What if youv`e been a member for a certain amount of time..say 10 months..as long as youv`e been a regular poster)..you get access to a closed forum..where the `old people` can discuss ,review or whatever...would that work....but also be able to access all the forums and be active...???
-
well stc i would say its already beginning to happen to you!
you now tell new people of for posting to many reviews ...you never used to....whys that ..becos your treating this like your home now & you want people to look after it.....& soon you will get fed up with new people & you will post less & you will leave
the only ones who avoid this are ones like flossie & jim morrison who only come here evry 2 weeks or less & so never realy get that involved
i forgot to add ramshackles to that he never gets involved & is always detached ...& hes a mod!
-
well,,iv`e done it a few times.........i don`t do it for any particular reason?,,i`m not that fussed about double dippers.. :D....
I`m trying to get to a 1000 posts(sssh secret}..no,,just a joke...trying to keep the harmony of the site going i suppose.....your the only one it`s winding up may i had...unless some are keeping quiet!!
Plus...i do also think the one a week rule should be enforced to keep order..i know that sort of contradicts what i said earlier..it`s just theres a right way and a wrong way to let peeps know..i don`t think it should be just left to the mods..i don`t know,,,,
-
.....your the only one it`s winding up may i had...unless some are keeping quiet!!
i dont think anyones ever thought about it before
-
& niow ive started i might as well finish...i think older members look down on new members like adults do to teenagers....oh look at him how embaressing hes posted twice in a week hes so obsessed with himself & his own silly songs...& haha i rememver when i was that vain & deluded ....& no dont do it like that do it this way im grown up i know best!
&all the while they are becoming old ...they dont post so many songs then they dont come here so much ....they gradauly just wither & die just like old people & disapear from here
& nobody else can see it happening but me?
-
Hello everyone,
I found this site whilst researching songwriter links.
I joined yesterday night and said my hello's and posted a song for review.
I also had a look around and posted a couple of comments. All seemed great until I innocently posted another song trying to get some more feedback. I was informed that it was 'upsetting members' and apologised with a wry smile. Since then I've received a message from your admin informing me my 2nd song has been deleted and not to do it again. I don't take any of it personally but I'm pretty sure this kind of a welcome will put most people off staying. I got the message and wouldn't have done it again when it was mentioned the first time but to message me and delete the song?
Alan.
-
When i joined up a distant 7 months ago...it was like the wildwest on here...i had a few dingdongs with one or two.....@ some point ,i PM`d Tone and suggested getting some moderators..because i could see what would happen once the place got busier..
Now i`m not trying to take any credit or owt{or responsibility)....but now we have them...and this is the way it is..
Iv`e noticed a rather terse attitude...but there it is....it`s a good place , so i`m sure we can live with it..new ones get the point...and so the world turns. :P
-
Bollocks
-
delete that then >:(
-
Bollocks
Shouldn`t this be in the lyrics section :D
I blame James Nighthawk for dredging the subject up again.. :D ::)
-
..me too! ::)
Seriously though - was that necessary? I think not.
I spent time listening to and reviewing that song it's a bloody joke to delete this members song when he was already warned not to do it again. I can't believe I had to type that as well. I mean, okay, if someone literally dumped ten songs in the review board for review in one day I could understand it but this is getting out of hand in my opinion.
Not good :o
-
The big problem with discussions like this is that nobody is wrong in what they are saying - everyone is right and I can see where everybody is coming from
If the forum were "ours" (and I mean this individually) we could decide the "house rules" and run it "our way"
I am very conscious that this is TONE's forum so what he says goes - we then decide whether we want to play by the rules and stay or go to another forum/outlet for our music
TONE has set the "guidelines" and now sends out an email with "the rules" - which were all set following a similar discussion a while ago - so TONE has shown he is willing to take on board changes to the running of his forum
It is clearly a difficult task trying to keep everyone happy as there will be those that want stricter rules/controls and those that think things should be a little more relaxed
As I have said I really enjoy listening to and reviewing other people's songs so it bothers me not how many songs people post
However, if it were a "free for all" I can see that people could "take the piss" and a mod would need to jump in
I think the "rules" as they stand are fair enough (and I find it difficult to believe that anyone would resent the limit of posting only 1 song per week to ensure everyone gets a crack at staying on the front page) but I think the "policing" of the rules should take in to account new members to encourage participation
@ Perseverance
Please don't be put off - this forum is full of great people and I am sure you will get a lot from it - and I am sure there is much you can contribute!
-
Thanks Boydie.
And Flossie :)
I'm gonna stick around. I know it's a difficult job moderating a message board.
-
interesting read haha but think i'l stay out of this one its getting a bit argumentive amongst there!
-
Since then I've received a message from your admin informing me my 2nd song has been deleted and not to do it again.
Hi Alan
I'm Tone, the forum admin, and it's the first I've heard of this. I haven't PMd you nor deleted any of your threads.
This is not what I meant when I said mods could gently and politely guide new members if the one song per week GUIDELINE wasn't being observed.
So I apologise if you've been on the wrong end of some heavy-handed moderation. It doesn't happen often, and you were unlucky enough to join during a rare period of turmoil.
-------------------------------------
Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread. I apologise that I can't implement a system that keeps everyone happy all the time, but I do believe the way it's run currently is the best compromise.
I don't think creating a closed forum is a good solution because it creates divisions between the members. If you want to talk to anyone or group of members privately, don't forget that you can use the PM system.
As for the forum leaching members, it's just normal for a forum to have a pretty dynamic flow of members. Some stay for a few weeks or months while posting very regularly, others stay for years and post once in a while.
If any long-standing members have left because of feeling disgruntled about the reviews forum (and not come back again after a rest) then none of them has said anything to me about it.
I hope you can see that even though I'm too busy to spend as much time on the forum as I'd like, I do care very much about this place, and I want to see it thrive.
If anyone wants to post any suggestions to this page or PM me, of course I will listen to any point of view.
-
oh for crying out loud you either have rules or you dont
you either have a endless influx of newbies who dont read the rules or you keep your old members
& youd all obviouisly rather listen to a newbies complaint than someone whos put soooooo much into this forum....thanks for letting me know were i stand ....i wont be back
bollocks ...ha
-
oh for crying out loud you either have rules or you dont
you either have a endless influx of newbies who dont read the rules or you keep your old members
& youd all obviouisly rather listen to a newbies complaint than someone whos put soooooo much into this forum....thanks for letting me know were i stand ....i wont be back
bollocks ...ha
I'm sorry you feel less important than someone who's only just joined Tina - but it's simply not true.
The reason I use words like guidelines instead of rules is because no two members or situations are the same. You don't need me to tell you the world simply isn't black and white like that.
Yes you've put a lot into this forum and I've expressed my appreciation for that, but you've also gained a lot, and you've also been the first to complain when things aren't to your liking.
I'm sorry that I don't agree with you about how the review forum should be run. But I'm just temperamentally different to you.
Also, nobody has put more into this forum than I have, and do you see me complaining? No.
If that to you is bollocks, then I have nothing else to say.
-
Thanks for the message Tone. I appreciate it.
When I said 'admin' I was referring to the hierarchy I had encountered.
I can see you've got a lot to deal with so as far as I'm concerned, that day is done.
Looking forward to tomorrow...
Alan.
-
Ok, I'm going to pitch in properly now.
On another and believe me when I say considerably larger forum I'm a mod. Due to the size of the forum we have a fair group of us (about a dozen I think). Every time there is an issue with rules and/or guidelines (we have both) being broken all the mods discuss it together, decide on our plan of action and carry it out as quickly as possible. Every. Single. Time. Absolutely no rule breach, dispute or other such unpleasant action is reacted to unless we have at the very least discussed it among a few of us. We're able to do this because most of us are on at least once a day. This method ensures we examine cases on a person-by-person basis, which as Tone stated is how they should be handled.
Now what we also do is have different moderators for different boards. If someone has a question about the rules on the board I moderate they ask me first. If there's a dispute on my board then I'm the one who sends the message or what have you once a plan of action has been decided on.
THIS BRINGS ME TO SOMETHING IMPORTANT
We have different rules for different boards. Now over there the boards are not drastically different but for legal reasons we have to have things like 'no pictures of firearms of [description]' while elsewhere people are able to write about such things in a novel they're posting.
I think this is something we could seriously benefit from. We have all these guidelines that actually only really apply to the reviews board, not even the lyrics board in most cases, and we're not consistent in our applying of these rules across boards anyway.
MOST FUCKING IMPORTANTLY
That forum is massive compared to this one and somehow we have zero, I say again ZERO problems with old members upset at new people joining. The reason for that is our attitude is 'Hi, welcome, come right in, enjoy yourself.' There are people who have been there for ages, there are those who have been there for only a few days. Everyone who is not a mod is treated equally to the point where we recently were forced to ban one of our longest standing members because he started attacking people of faith on our forum.
This attitude is something we desperately need to adopt here.
I'm not saying we need to accept the new members regardless of how they behave, I'm saying we need to welcome them with open arms because members are the lifeblood of the forum and we are no more important than them.
Please, please, please can this whole thing just stop being a problem? If people here think it's an issue then really there's an issue with them and their view.
Now before Tina replies saying she likes this place if she can treat it like a home we manage to generate that same sense on Brass Goggles with no trouble. Think of it instead like an apartment building. You have your apartment that you share with the people you feel the strongest sense of community with and are on friendly, neighbourly terms with the rest for the most part. You also have those you don't like but for the sake of everyone's comfort you keep that to yourself.
Now can we just get on with enjoying the damn good music people post here?
-
i just want somewhere where i feel at home & know evryone & yes new people can come in as long as they respect my/our house
Smack me in the face with a wet kipper if you think i'm romanticising this, but Tinam, you are part of the family of this forum. Without your posts and gritty reality checks - we would all be worse off. (Remember, without you, I'd have never heard of PJ Proby !!)
Oddly, we all have our personalities and quirks - both new and old members - and that's what makes this forum so great. I don't want this forum to be so big that we lose the individuality and familial quality that the moderators have created.
-
God back to this bullshit !
Some new members become old members - lets give them the opportunity.
I need a break sometimes - I can't be on here all the time - I have 3 kids , I run my own business , I am involved in various committees and groups.
Sometimes I will give more than I take on here , other times vice versa.
I just love listening to music and being involved in this community when I can - who cares if someone joins and posts too much - it does always sort itself out in the long run.
Members don't leave due to this - I am sure there are a variety of reasons why people leave - you would need to ask them - let's not speculate.
This forum is as good as it gets - there is an ever increasing and evolving 'hardcore' who benefit greatly from the spirit of this forum - if others miss out on that opportunity then so be it.
I for one won't be intimidated into ignoring new members or making a minimum number of appearances.
Peace and love to you all :D
-
I haven't been here in months. I faded away because this whole ongoing thing was getting irritating then. The forum is still in my bookmarks, so I took a look in and I can't believe it's still going on now. I agree that the inevitable occasional influx of one-post-wonders can get annoying, but the griping about it is even worse. There's a big pile of teddies in that corner.
-
I haven't been here in months. I faded away because this whole ongoing thing was getting irritating then. The forum is still in my bookmarks, so I took a look in and I can't believe it's still going on now. I agree that the inevitable occasional influx of one-post-wonders can get annoying, but the griping about it is even worse. There's a big pile of teddies in that corner.
Only Tina was making a fuss..i don`t think anyone else is really that bothered...the multiple posting problem is largely contained....so i wouldn`t have that opinion if i were you... if no one brings the subject up again,,it won`t exist.
-
For a while now I haven't given the forums the same intense kind of attention that I used to, not because I don't love this place but just like you Kaf I have kids to look after and tons of other stuff going on that keeps me away and not any political reasons or because I am unhappy with the forums as some others may have thought or assumed.
Sometimes I am away for weeks at a time but I awlays jump back in when I can. I still review and contribute in other sections way, way more than I post anything of my own. Can't remember how long ago it is since I posted anything.
I will when I get one of the few pieces I'm working on slowly is finished or is at the point where I think I need advice. :)
As regards the current state of the forums... I can't see much wrong and I would have to be with STC on the way I am looking at it. I don't really think that at this moment in time a problem really exists that is worth such a debate.
Glad to see both of you, Estreet and Kaf back here and to be honest I'd just ignore this thread. I have been doing. ;D