The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: MonnoDB on April 25, 2020, 10:25:35 PM
-
Hello all,
A new one from Ashes for Dreams, a song inspired by a conversation about gaslighting and how awful it is to observe... it kind of got bolshier then :)
As always with our collaborations, this was a blast and a half to create... I just love what @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875) has done with it - from playing to arranging to production. We're not sure what genre this is so please feel free to help us with that... And also please nit pick away - all and every piece of feedback will be appreciated and digested as I'm sure we'll be tweaking..
https://soundcloud.com/ashesfordreams/ice-queen
I'm an ice queen
I'm aloof and I'm serene
You'll never succeed
In cracking me
Don't try make me the bad guy
Don't push me too far
I'm fine here nicely simmering
I see exactly what you are
I hear the words you spit at me
You want me to spit them back
And then I'll be the villain
The one on the attack
I’m an ice queen
I’m aloof and I’m serene
You'll never succeed
In cracking me
I’m an ice queen
My face is just a screen
You’ll never see
What’s bugging me.
I see what you are doing
You think you hide it well
You manoeuvre and position
As if I cannot tell
That your hurt, it is unfounded
Your fear it is not real
And your treachery's compounded
By an ire you can’t conceal
I’m an ice queen
I’m aloof and I’m serene
You'll never succeed
In cracking me
I’m an ice queen
My face is just a screen
You’ll never see
What’s bugging me.
In my heart I am already gone
My presence only flesh and bone
Immune to names and sticks and stones
I’m ready to desert you
I’m an ice queen
I’m aloof and I’m serene
You'll never succeed
In cracking me
I’m an ice queen
My face is just a screen
You’ll never see
What’s bugging me.
-
Hi there,
I like this song! It grabs you from the start. The production is quite good. Nice instrumentation. Bass is really good too.
That said, here are some suggestions to make it even better:
- The vocals could do with some spice to bring them up. In the verses, they quite good - the processing fits. In the chorus, they sometimes get buried especially as it seems your vocal tone is conflicting with the instruments in this song part more. Some suggestions to improve: 1. add a vocal double 2. try additing a chorusing plugin (like Microshift from Sound Toys) 3. add a harmonized vocal. You could also add some gang vocals "Ice Queen" after you say this lyric - so you say "Ice Queen" and then the gang vocals reply with "Ice Queen".
- Try also some automation on the vocals in chorus.
- Maybe also try to compress the vocals a little harder. You'd be surprised how much compression vocals can take, especially as you are quite dynamic with your volume in the vocal performance, which is good for the feel of the song, but sometimes buries the vocals.
- In contrast, I would consider adding an "AM Radio" or "telephone" effect to the opening vocal part.
- The drums could do with more ambience/reverb to my taste, especially the snare. This is personal choice I know, but that's my view.
- I feel the end could be spiced up more. By the way I struggle with this most myself. My suggestion would be to go up an octave with the last "You'll never see" and hold it, maybe also add some string part to end with a little more energy.
Hope this helps - all meant in constructive manner. Keep at it!
Jonathan
-
Just superb guys 8) great arrangement and super vocal, quite filmesque actually..dramatic and commercial :)
best, kevin
-
This is absolutely superb @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875) and @MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) A very accomplished piece of work, some lovely arrangements. Good subject to write about as well. I like the strings in particular and fabulous vocals, bass and guitar as well - One of you very best in my opinion :)
-
Hi Guys,
I'd never heard the term "Gaslighting" - had to look it up. :)
Good topic for sure.
Can't help with the genre - sounds a mish mash of late 70s movie soundtrack with maybe some 90s indie.
Mindie genre? (Movie Indie :D)
Some of the string parts made me think of Rocky when he's training.
Really accomplished sounding track.
Good to start with part of the chorus. Get the hook in early.
You keep on delivering the goods.
Digger
-
Wow, the forum is on fire at the minute. Thought this was great - the standout for me was the strong arrangements - they are a bit ‘disco’ (in a good way). Immaculate production that never seemed to repeat itself and built very nicely.
-
Hi @MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) and @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875)
This is rather spectacular stuff - very ambitious and cinematic sounding. The highlight for me was the string arrangement which I thought was brilliant. Production is incredibly high class. A few pitchy moments on the vocal to these tin ears but overall the vocal was superb. What can I say? A masterpiece.
M
-
Very cool. You suit that vocal line Karen, playing the part of the Ice Queen with the inner feistiness all under control. It's a proper old fashioned song in a classical pop sense, structured - don't laugh - like an Abba composition, with a strong building melody and pay-off chorus, the melody helping carry the narrative engagingly so.
I liked the kind of disco strings and the M8 in particular carried a lot of attention to detail that was all very satisfying on the old ears. High level of performance and creativity throughout. Another winner from you - and a very commercial offering it is too!
-
@MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875)
Hi guys, lovely collaboration. Great vocals over an interesting arrangement,some really nice touches. Made me think of the Cranberries might be the accent though ;).
Excellent stuff!
Cheers
Jamie
-
A very well written song with powerful lyrics and beautifully sung. Great production and arrangement skills on display throughout.
-
Another great number here, dudes.
Production is super. Bass is low and menacing. Sets the scene. Great strings too. And the plinky-plonk thing as well.
Vocals are fab and carry off the lyric perfectly. I love how it doesn't seem to me to be doing that coy sort of bluffing, tough exterior but soft-as-shite on the inside thing that is generally just a fishing expedition. Although I do think that you're such a kind and thoughtful person that my previous half-baked and completely unqualified statement might have an element of truth to it. But not the fishing bit.
I can just imagine the ice queen covered in hundreds and thousands, smothered in monkeys blood with a flake sticking out of her head ::)
Sorry.
Enjoyed this one a lot...top quality all-round!
-
Thanks all for listening and commenting! Feedback is much appreciated!
@jonlint (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19407) thanks a mill for the detailed feedback. All will be considered when we’re tweaking.
@shadowfax (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20024) - thanks a mill!!
@pompeyjazz (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20269) thanks so much for the great comments!
@digger72 (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=9823) - ha! Mindie it is then! Thanks a mill!!
@PaulyX (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21034) - disco, eh?! Well I guess we’ve done that before so.... why not revisit! Thanks for the lovely comments!
@montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653) agree the strings are fab as is the production. Hmmm I don’t hear the pitchy bits - must be my ears!! I’d really love if you could point them to me so we can swap them out...
@MichaelA (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21274) .. ABBA? Not laughing as I LOVE them!! So even a hint of a comparison is a thrill.. And yeah, I really am an Ice Queen :-)! Thanks a mill for the comments!!
@Jamie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19125) - yeah I don’t hide that Irish accent for sure! Thanks so much!!
@Grubstar (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=22532) thank you kindly - lovely comments!
@PaulAds (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20253) interesting comments on the lyrics... as it’s not about me I can say what I want. I guess the person who triggered this has had her confidence severely eroded and this is what I want her to do/say to the ^%#*#% who’s causing that!! Maybe I’m not so nice at all!! Even with a flake sticking out of my head :-). Thanks a mill for the comments!!
K
-
Hey,you two.
This is something quite different for you both,pushing the envelope yeah?
The dark lyrics contrast starkly with the upbeat backdrop,but I'm twisted enough to dig that trait.
It's intriguing to hear your voice in this context Karen,there's a mix of Kate Bush and Bjork all tempered with your own individual style. It's a song I need a few plays to totally warm to,but that in itself can be the sign of a song which will age well. A slow burner.
The first couple of plays told my ears the verse melody was stronger,more memorable than the chorus,but again after more listens I persuaded myself,it's a good thing to shake up a format and do things slightly unexpected. There is no one more guilty of hammering a hook to death than myself!
A very enjoyable and enigmatic recording. Thanks for sharing Johan and Karen.
-
@MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) - Whato you two, I'm with @digger72 (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=9823) - I didn't know what gaslighting is, but i do now, I love what Johan has done with it, I'm afraid I'm not sold on the and 'I'm serene' melody, just a personal thing. But the delivery the buildup and the M8 are all very clever and accomplished. Vocal delivery - top notch.
Production is very good, and as some others has said some real craft on getting those strings to do that, @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875) - great work man, and bringing in the rock gtrs, super idea.
-
Thanks @cowparsleyman (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21308) .. yep those strings are something else!! Gaslighting - not good! Thanks for the listen and the comments!
@Skub (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20061) great to see you round these parts.. Well we have ventured into disco before and this probably isn't a million miles from that but yes, not quite our natural dark home and sure as you say, lyrics are still dark and twisted :) Thanks so much for your lovely comments.. nothing wrong with a slow burner as long as it burns! :)
Thanks both..
K
-
Great lyrics (and theme) - the cracking and spitting lines are ... cracking.
Strings are fab. If there was one thing I wasn't sure about then it would be the drums which are huge but maybe a touch too huge for this style?
Vocals sounding really good - perhaps even some harmonies in the final chorus could be the icing on the cake to match the power of the backing?
Catchy and original!
-
@MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) I love this, right up my street love the bass, and the strings a really great. You have such a unique voice :D.
The arrangement is awesome
Great collaboration @MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) & @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875)
-
I think this is an excellent song. I'm an old disco fan so this sits well with me, and it has a modern feel to it. The vivid string arrangements, the guitar, the drums - there's so much that add to the energy of the song. The vocals fit in very well too. I find the song benefits from being played loud. I recommend you to try it!
-
Thanks a mill @adamfarr (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20124) for the comments and suggestions. There are actually harms in there - perhaps we need to bring them up / add to them...
Thanks so much @Sebandme (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=22491) and @The Estuary (SWE) (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=22380) ... much appreciated!!
K
-
Another great song from Ashes For Dreams @MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) and @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875) . You guys know I am a fan already, though. I love the way you sing this one.
I'm with @MichaelA (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21274) about the ABBA comparison.
8)
-
Agree with the cinematic quality - lovely strings, good storytelling with the dark subject lyrics, really rate the vocals on this production.
-
Another great song from Ashes For Dreams @MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) and @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875) . You guys know I am a fan already, though. I love the way you sing this one.
I'm with @MichaelA (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21274) about the ABBA comparison.
8)
Hey @Unclenny (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=22611) - welcome to the forum.. Great to see you around these parts :) ! Hope you stick around - you'll find a friendly and very helpful bunch! Thanks for the lovely comments..
@Morefrog Jones (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20200) - thanks so much for your comments. Much appreciated!
K