[ScottLevi]

Hey,

Sorry badly worded thread written quickly on the bus

Everything I've read talks about progression between notes and how you move  between them or use multiple to create chords which have different effects (major minor ect) You can then play in different orders to create different styles.

But outside the context of any other notes, melody or progression, does a note mean anything? Are there such statements like "C is a sad note" or "G" is good to use in songs that are aggressive" or anything like that, the same way you might use these statements against different chord types or progressions.

You often see in beginner guitar tutorials examples of how to play songs in different keys (so using easier chords) - so for example would playing a song meant originally to be in the key of G in the key of C give any affect other than simply being different? Like "c makes for a lighter-feeling song" or "being in the key of G is aggressive"

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

Cheers,
Scott

[GuyBarry]

But outside the context of any other notes, melody or progression, does a note mean anything? Are there such statements like "C is a sad note" or "B# has a sharp is good to use in songs that are aggressive" or anything like that, the same way you might use these statements against different chord types or progressions.

I can't really see how any note can have particular emotional qualities in isolation, otherwise when you transposed a song into a different key it would take on an entirely different character.  However I think that relative to a particular key, you can say that different notes have different qualities.  To take an obvious example, in the key of C you might say that E natural was a "happy" note while E flat was a "sad" one.  But if you were in G then the corresponding notes would be B natural and B flat.

You often see in beginner guitar tutorials examples of how to play songs in different keys (so using easier chords) - so for example would playing a song meant originally to be in the key of G in the key of C give any affect other than simply being different? Like "c makes for a lighter-feeling song" or "being in the key of G is aggressive"

The issue of so-called "key-colour" is a vexed one.  Some people claim that different keys convey different moods.  Personally, with our modern system of equal temperament, I don't see how that's possible.  There's perhaps a case for saying that in Bach's time different keys sounded different from each other, because the tunings differed from one key to another.  But it's very much a matter of personal opinion.  I don't have perfect pitch (though I can sometimes identify notes by ear) so I don't always know what key a piece is being played in.  I recorded one of my melodies without accompaniment, thought I was singing in C major and it turned out to be B major.  Didn't make any difference to the way it sounded.

[adamfarr]

Perhaps not 100% on point, but I think pitch does have some bearing on the flavour - for example would a Leonard Cohen have the same world-weariness if pitched up more than a couple of tones? Or take an uptempo disco song - would it feel the same if pitched down? (can't think of a good example!)

On a piano probably notes are mostly just notes. But fretted and stringed instruments sound different at different places on the neck even using the same notes - open strings can't have bends or vibrato and just have a different colour. Perhaps that affects the way that guitar songs are written and what we're used to hearing (are there more songs written in say Eminor because easy to play?). Tom Morello used to say that Fm was a great key to rock out in, just because of where the notes fall on the neck.

[Paulski]

On a piano probably notes are mostly just notes.

No, the black ones sound better IMHO 

[GuyBarry]

Just wanted to comment on your specific examples:

Are there such statements like "C is a sad note" or "B# has a sharp is good to use in songs that are aggressive" or anything like that

Since C and B sharp are, acoustically, the same note, in what way might they have a different effect on the listener?  Are you suggesting that the way the note is written might make a difference?

[ScottLevi]

Haha Hey Guy,

Still at work so a quick one, but the C# B was just a mistake, meant two different notes (A and G instead maybe?)

Cheers

[tboswell]

Since C and B sharp are, acoustically, the same note, in what way might they have a different effect on the listener? 

Well if you are not using a well tempered tuning C and B# can be different notes actually. They would be ever so slightly different depending on the context. This theory of tuning and applies to instruments without static tuning like violins for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning
In these more "perfect" tunings the notes are in different places depending on the key you are in somewhat.

For pianos and guitars the are "well tempered" it makes no different though as they are the not practical approximate of the true tuning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament

There is a huge history of emotional resonance within keys and even notes, but for practical songwriting don't worry about it and just go with what feels right to you.
What might be a hugely emotional strenuous note for Leonard Cohen is a smooth and simple one for Celine Dion.
Make the choices with your ears.

Tom.

[Boydie]

The simple answer is no, different individual notes do not have a different "feel" - the key to "feelings" in music is all down to the "intervals" between note

However, I think I can understand where this concept may have come from

Different notes on different instruments can have a different "timbre" - e.g. a middle C note on a piano will sound different from the G note either side - not just higher or lower but the note will have a different "feel" - the same is true on other instruments such as guitar

It is less relevant to generated tones (such as synths) but there is good chance you will find certain notes more pleasing than others

Different keys can have a different feel (partly due to the different timbre of notes) and a vocalist would definitely sing a bit differently in different keys, which may impart a certain emotion/feeling into the song

[jonel]

A single note in isolation can have no emotional characteristics associated with it. The emotional characteristic of a note is perceived by the brain only in the context of other notes.

1. If a note is played at the same time as a chord then 'colour' of the note will be felt in relation to the other notes of the chord. If the note happens to be one of the notes of the underlying chord then this note will feel very much at home with the chord. So, for a 3-note chord there will be three such notes that will be feel good when played. Since any key will have 7 notes of the chromatic scale then the remaining 4 notes of the key will not have as homely a feel (they introduce some tension which is put to good used on many songs) the remaining 5 notes of the chromatic scale for a particular key will sound really tense - sometimes jarring - when played with the same chord.


2. If the note is played as part of a sequence then the brain will again interpret the 'colour' in the context of the previously played note. If the two notes belong to the same scale then the combination will be interpreted as a good combination. In the key of C I might play the scale using the 7 white keys and that will sound good as a scale. If I try the same white keys beginning on note G then when the F note is played it will sound flat (off colour). To make the scale correct would require the the F note to be substituted with F# (giving a new key of G). If the period between the playing of the notes is long enough for the brain 'not to remember' the previous note then no colour can be attributed to the note.

I both these case it is the manner of how the brain interprets the combinations of sounds which occur simultaneously or are close enough allow the brain to make a comparison.

Some singers who sing a song in one key and then change to a song in a different key can have a problem with the notes of the new key if they do it to quickly.

John Lundrigan
 

[ScottLevi]

Hi All,

Thanks for the help, think I understand a better now.

Is mostly what I thought that the feel of a note is defined purely by it's context; whether that's the notes around it, the interval between or the instrument / position it's played.

Just wanted to make sure, as it seems a fundamental piece of information that I simply wasn't certain about.

All the best,
Scott.

[Martinswede]

Hi guys!

As far as I know the pitch fork is the only acoustic sound source that can produce
a single note without any overtones. Which means it has no timbre. I'd say
most people make a difference between keys without noticing it. The better your pitch
is the more subtle a difference is noticed  An unschooled listener hears a difference at, I guess,
about a third. A schooled one a full step and a selected few a half step or less(yes semitones).

What I'm trying to say is that as well as there is a difference between a note and its
sub octave we are not without blame. Our hearing is not evolutionary made for
listening to music. It just works really well for it and so music as we know it originated.

So back to your question. What that has been written is mostly about the old modal
scales in ancient Greece. They were said to have different effects on the listener. Preparing
one to go to war for an example. But that is scales and its a whole different story.

Transposing a song from C major to D major will never be without practical difference but in theory
not so much. But since theory is a later construction it already had its framework lined out.
And, as other contributors of this thread already stated, all (acoustic) instruments sound different
in different keys. This basically because they are in one way or another constructed, and not always
with intention, that way.

I'll end here otherwise I'll go on forever.

My best to all of you,
- Martin