The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: kevysc on February 13, 2018, 12:05:33 PM
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Bring It Back
Would love some feedback on this one .. please use the poll to let me know which version you prefer.
https://www.reverbnation.com/kevinism/song/29213525-bring-it-back
https://www.reverbnation.com/kevinism/song/29332127-bring-it-back-stripped-down
Standing alone at the top of the stairs
Is this what it's like to be free?
Downstairs the sound of the TV drones on
Is this how his life's meant to be?
"And then the lights go out an there's no one left here but me"
Bring it back, bring it back
Bring it back, bring it back
"And when it comes to love there's nothing more I can take"
Bring it back, bring it back
Bring it back, bring it back
Who would have thought after all of these years
She's find the courage to leave?
It didn't take much to convince her to go
Why did she look so relieved?
He picks up his phone just in case that she's called
But no one has called him today
He feels so alone as he lies on the bed
Life can be funny that way
"And then the lights go out an there's no one left here but me"
Bring it back, bring it back
Bring it back, bring it back
Life can be funny that way
Maybe tomorrow he'll sort something out
Yes maybe tomorrow we'll see
Downstairs the sounds of the TV drones on
Is this how his life's meant to be?
Bring it back, bring it back
Bring it back, bring it back
Bring it back, bring it back
Bring it back
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Not sure if it's just because of the forum upgrade, but have not received any feedback since posting three days ago, so please bear with me if I bump this one up ....
Thanks,
Kevin
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I'll bite.
It's not really the kind of style I usually go for but I'll try...
- The guitar licks/sound is really cool
- The upbeat, 'jaunty' drums and percussion are a little at odds with the soaring guitars. Can't decide if this is good or bad. In any case I think they are to prominent in the mix. Maybe a little change here?
- I think it needs a break, chorus or something. Its all built around this descending scale which, while cool, has been done a lot. I think you have the core of a song but it needs developing
- I really like the lyrics with the exception of the 'bring it back' line. Maybe it just because when I hear it I can't help but think about 'Sing it back' by Moloko which has the same line... (Took me a bit of youtube and googling trawling to try and remember the song it reminded me of!)
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Hi Kev,
Same as shackles here, Not my bag, if I was producing this (but I am not), I would have gone for a bit opf processing on Vocal, slight delay or reverb or some kind of processing.
Guitars are cool tho, Vocal is good too, IMHO needs a bit of effects...And more distinct sections.
But hey Kev, As a song, liked the lyrics and it flowed along nice .
Not my style but great work. Mix is good too.
Well done.
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Hi kev I love it , great voice - has a disco feel to me - l love the background chorus , a great song to dance to - I think you're other stuff is good as well xxx
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Many thanks for the feedback, very much appreciated, particularly those for whom this is not their kind of music!
- The upbeat, 'jaunty' drums and percussion are a little at odds with the soaring guitars. Can't decide if this is good or bad. In any case I think they are to prominent in the mix. Maybe a little change here?
- I think it needs a break, chorus or something. Its all built around this descending scale which, while cool, has been done a lot. I think you have the core of a song but it needs developing
- I really like the lyrics with the exception of the 'bring it back' line. Maybe it just because when I hear it I can't help but think about 'Sing it back' by Moloko which has the same line... (Took me a bit of youtube and googling trawling to try and remember the song it reminded me of!)
Some good suggestions .. I will play around with the drums and see if I can create a break that works. ( However, I'm keeping the "Bring it back line" , despite the Moloko reference :) )
... if I was producing this (but I am not), I would have gone for a bit opf processing on Vocal, slight delay or reverb or some kind of processing.
Good suggestion, I will play around with the vocal effects. (There are actually 3 separate vocals, one of which is doubled, with some reverb on one of the doubles, but the others are dry at the moment.)
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Yo Kev.
I liked the track,very Bowie like in the vocal dept,especially using the octave track.
Ram and Andy have touched on a few points I agree with. I'm not a fan of the bongos,maybe if they were deeper in the mix they may work better?
It's a good solid track,but maybe the last few tweaks would make it special.
BTW,I think the forum is extra quiet at the moment because of FAWM running during Feb.
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I don't mind the bongos, per se, excpt that they, and the rest of the music, drown out the vocals quite a bit.
re Lyrics. I don't think these lines fit together.
"And then the lights go out an there's no one left here but me"
"And when it comes to love there's nothing more I can take"
Def a touch of Bowie, but the vocals need to be stronger.
Otherwise, not too bad my man.
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I really like it, another strong song from your portfolio Kev. I'll give you my honest opinion as well,(as I always apprciate from you guys here)
I'd vote to keep the bring it back lyric
I agree with some of the other comments, the arrangement/production might need looking at. the delay on the vox, sure would help, Listening though these cans (which are closed back and quite bassy).
Only bring out the bongos as a hook between verse and chorus, they distract too early, you need to build the song, it's like the dance of the 7 veils in reverse, so at the end it all comes together.
Push your Lead Vox a bit more, it's nearly there, add some grit.
Much stronger BVox on the chorus.
hope it helps,
cpm
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I've posted an updated version, losing the bongos ( actually, they are still there but back in the mix) and adding some effects to the vocals. I also changed the order of things, although decided not to add a break/change up, as I kind of like the relentless circular looping effect ...
Thank again to everyone for their feedback, it really helped me to develop this one.
Cheers,
Kevin
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Hi Kev,
I took a few listens just now and a few things jumped out at me as i listened.
Nice song btw :)
When you start the first verse there is also backing vocals with it. imo they don't need to be there so early on in your song. For me they got in the way of your lead vocal so i would consider removing them. You have a good voice so lets hear it i say!
Save backing vocals for the chorus if they need it would be my advice.
There is a sweeping sound in this track which again for me doesn't need to be present so either lower it or remove it to allow your vocal to cut through. The entire mix will sound cleaner also by doing this. If you do decide to drop this sweeping sound out you will notice that your mix is now sounding cleaner because your percussion can now do it's job of driving the song forward more because it doesn't have to compete with this sweeping sound.
I really enjoyed the listen Kev! :)
Johnny :)
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I really dig this! Can't put the finger on why, not that it matters though :)
Think the 'strum guitar' is a little 'fat/muddy', maybe cut a bit in the lower mids to get a crisper mix?
Not much else to add really, there is something very cool about this that I just can not put words to.
Well done!
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Kev, It's so tricky to know what to do, when you put your song out for all to advise/comment/critique? All you can do is to do what you think is right.
IMHO it's a huge improvement, I agree with JohnnyUK, that the phase doesn't need to be there all the time, those things have more effect(no pun intended) if used sparingly, like the bongos, they sit better way back in the mix. (just a little aside here, some things can be very low in the mix if they have their own space in the stereo, just because YOU know it's there, people think it needs to be obvious, but it doesn't, experiment with having stuff going on very low in the mix, and you might be surprised...it take courage though, especially if something was difficult to play. The effect I would be looking for is more 'It might be noticed if it wasn't there, rather than it would be noticed'
The backing vox are super.
The guitar riff might also be used more effectively if the riff is more sparingly used, the hook will be planted by the time thesong is over, I guess it's like having 'big boys don't cry' in I'm not in love going through the verse and chorus.
The 'bring it back's are much better.
There sounds like a difference in lead vox between verse and chorus?? (I'm only listening on my crummy laptop speakers) so don't take my word for it.
Hope this helps.
Good job Kev.
Hope you don't mind my comments.
cpm
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Hi Kevin. This is an absolutely excellent song. Love it. Listened to it 3 times. I think your songwriting is really evolving in a good way. Very original, creative, well produced and catchy. Love the little guitar hooks and melodies. It also reminds me of Bowie in one of his more playful moments. Superb. This and your last song Strange is your Life are top drawer
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I think I've said it before but I can't get away from the Peter Hammil comparison vocal-wise (sorry! though I really really like his less progressive and more melodic stuff, which this could be one of).
I think it's a strong song. Writing-wise I found myself asking "bring what back"? but that may be the idea (and I certainly wouldn't want to hear "bring her back". Bring me back maybe?). Production wise the BVs sounded a bit washy and dominant at times but that's a really small thing. (I think I missed the bongos version which may be a good thing!)
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Hey Kev,
Great track mate ;D Can hear a lot of influences...but delivered with
style and character. Love the lyrics, thought they conveyed the confusion and pain
really well. I can relate ;D ;D
Nothing I'd change here. Thought you got a little close to the mic here and there,
bit thick....pop shield ? Minor detail, in the spirit of perfection ;D ;D
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Hi Kevin,
definitely reminds me of Bowie, great lyrics.
Keith
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Hi Kev, I really enjoyed this, it made me think of the electro pop stuff like the Human League, brought back some good memories, its nicely played and sung too.
Cheers, Mikey
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Hi, this definitely has a 'Bowie' feel to it,which of course must be a good thing. At first I thought it was a bit one dimensional, but it became strangely hypnotic with the repetitiveness. Interesting, some unusual sounds going together too!
Cheers
Jamie
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Thanks again to everyone for their feedback, very much appreciated as I really do use it to make improvements.
Hi Kev,
I took a few listens just now and a few things jumped out at me as i listened.
Nice song btw :)
When you start the first verse there is also backing vocals with it. imo they don't need to be there so early on in your song. For me they got in the way of your lead vocal so i would consider removing them. You have a good voice so lets hear it i say!
Save backing vocals for the chorus if they need it would be my advice.
There is a sweeping sound in this track which again for me doesn't need to be present so either lower it or remove it to allow your vocal to cut through. The entire mix will sound cleaner also by doing this. If you do decide to drop this sweeping sound out you will notice that your mix is now sounding cleaner because your percussion can now do it's job of driving the song forward more because it doesn't have to compete with this sweeping sound.
I really enjoyed the listen Kev! :)
Johnny :)
Actually, originally I didn't have the backing vocals in the first verse, but it sounded too sparse. Maybe I'll play with modifying in some way. Also, will play around with the sweeping sound ...
I think I've said it before but I can't get away from the Peter Hammil comparison vocal-wise (sorry! though I really really like his less progressive and more melodic stuff, which this could be one of).
I think it's a strong song. Writing-wise I found myself asking "bring what back"? but that may be the idea (and I certainly wouldn't want to hear "bring her back". Bring me back maybe?). Production wise the BVs sounded a bit washy and dominant at times but that's a really small thing. (I think I missed the bongos version which may be a good thing!)
Yes, the "Bring It Back" is about bringing back a lifestyle that he misses rather than just a person. The BVs are the only vocal parts with no effects, so maybe that's the issue ... another thing to play with.Kev, It's so tricky to know what to do, when you put your song out for all to advise/comment/critique? All you can do is to do what you think is right.
IMHO it's a huge improvement, I agree with JohnnyUK, that the phase doesn't need to be there all the time, those things have more effect(no pun intended) if used sparingly, like the bongos, they sit better way back in the mix. (just a little aside here, some things can be very low in the mix if they have their own space in the stereo, just because YOU know it's there, people think it needs to be obvious, but it doesn't, experiment with having stuff going on very low in the mix, and you might be surprised...it take courage though, especially if something was difficult to play. The effect I would be looking for is more 'It might be noticed if it wasn't there, rather than it would be noticed'
The backing vox are super.
The guitar riff might also be used more effectively if the riff is more sparingly used, the hook will be planted by the time thesong is over, I guess it's like having 'big boys don't cry' in I'm not in love going through the verse and chorus.
The 'bring it back's are much better.
There sounds like a difference in lead vox between verse and chorus?? (I'm only listening on my crummy laptop speakers) so don't take my word for it.
Hope this helps.
Good job Kev.
Hope you don't mind my comments.
cpm
Some great points and ideas, thanks. By the way, there are two "voices" one being the Narrator and the other the Subject of the song. In the absence of a co-vocalist, I deliberately tried to make them sound like different characters, if that makes sense.
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Gotta be honest my friend and say that this was a difficult listen..the loop seems to drift around underneath the song in a very disjointed fashion..doesn't seem to want to be part of the song..and the guitar lead also floats around a bit meaningless..you have a bowie-esque style which is intriguing, I just feel you need to spend more time sorting things out arrangement wise..sorry mate... :(
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I'm coming to this late so I've only heard the modified version. There is something about the track which doesn't work for me. I've had a few listens but I still can't put my finger on it. I'm a fan of natural sounding recordings with not too much going on and I found this to be quite alienating to listen to and there was too much fussiness in the arrangement. I'm not a fan of processed vocals - it removes me from the singer. The "bring it back" refrain is a little too repetitive for me. This sounds like a real hatchet job which it's not intended to be but I don't just review things I like. I'm really sorry but this was not my flavour of ice cream.
M
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Someone suggested I change the title from "When It Comes" to "Bring It Back", and on relection, that's a better title, so I am going with that!
Cheers,
Kevin
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Start reminded me of the beginning of the TV show Bergerac! (no bad thing)
For me, with this style of music, the production is so important.
I would probably tried to have widened the stereo field for the backing but kept the vocals more central.
A song in this style demands a big production.
The overall theme is very strong and its almost there, but the production gets a little mixed up and the definition get lost a little as a result.
More separation, from a production perspective would help tremendously.
Overall, a great job though.
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Hi Kevin,
I have a request for you. Could you please make a new version of this song and re-post it on here. Make a version where you have muted out that fuzz guitar instrument and all the backing vocals. Make a version minus those then post a link in here and i promise you 1000% everyone will like it more than your current version and all we will have done is mute a few things out.
You will still have the version you like Kev.
Johnny :)
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Hi Kev, certainly another interesting track. The melody made me think of ABC or Blancmange. I dig it, but found the vocals somehow a bit cluttered... I think the varying volumes and treatments left me wondering which were the lead vocals and which were the BVs, and I found that a little confusing. As Johnny suggests it would be interesting to hear a stripped back version to assess the song itself a little more - maybe it is a little over-produced at present, but I can tell there's a gem of a track in there. Effects aside the actual delivery of the vocals sounded very strong and I liked that "Bring it back" refrain... it's a little haunting, and given a more upfront treatment felt like it could be a real hook.
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Hi Kevin,
I have a request for you. Could you please make a new version of this song and re-post it on here. Make a version where you have muted out that fuzz guitar instrument and all the backing vocals. Make a version minus those then post a link in here and i promise you 1000% everyone will like it more than your current version and all we will have done is mute a few things out.
You will still have the version you like Kev.
Johnny :)
Johnny, many thanks for the suggestion. I am out and about at the moment, but willl try to post something tomorrow ... maybe I will even try the polling feature to get some other views : )
Cheers, Kevin
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Hi Kevin,
I have a request for you. Could you please make a new version of this song and re-post it on here. Make a version where you have muted out that fuzz guitar instrument and all the backing vocals. Make a version minus those then post a link in here and i promise you 1000% everyone will like it more than your current version and all we will have done is mute a few things out.
You will still have the version you like Kev.
Johnny :)
Johnny, many thanks for the suggestion. I am out and about at the moment, but willl try to post something tomorrow ... maybe I will even try the polling feature to get some other views : )
Cheers, Kevin
I have added a new stripped down version .. I will put the link next to the original one. I have also added a poll and would like to get feedback on which version listeners prefer. Many thanks again to Johnny for his suggestions.
Kevin
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Hi Kevin,
I have a request for you. Could you please make a new version of this song and re-post it on here. Make a version where you have muted out that fuzz guitar instrument and all the backing vocals. Make a version minus those then post a link in here and i promise you 1000% everyone will like it more than your current version and all we will have done is mute a few things out.
You will still have the version you like Kev.
Johnny :)
Johnny, many thanks for the suggestion. I am out and about at the moment, but willl try to post something tomorrow ... maybe I will even try the polling feature to get some other views : )
Cheers, Kevin
I have added a new stripped down version .. I will put the link next to the original one. I have also added a poll and would like to get feedback on which version listeners prefer. Many thanks again to Johnny for his suggestions.
Kevin
Hi Kevin,
I voted for.......drum roll...... The stripped down version!!! :)
We finally get to hear your voice! Why on earth are you hiding it! You do know that i would still lose that sweeping flanged sound :) or at least cut it right back in the mix but that's just me.
If you like it then you should keep it cos it's your song so it's always your decision.
I am really glad that you did this Kevin. I do hope now that you can hear just how clear and uncluttered it can be around your vocal with just a few small changes like this. Keeping things/ instruments etc out of your vocals way improves your songs ability to get it's message across 100% as is the case here. So for me it was a no brainer to pick the stripped down version!
Good stuff Kevin.
Johnny :)
PS: A song is all about the voice ( i will keep saying this until the cows come home) :)
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This is a really catchy song! I am really enjoying your production on songs and I actually preferred the original! I appreciate the comments about stripping it back but I did feel the stripped back version lacked something...
Really great feel tfor this and a great vocal too! Nice work
Darren
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Hi again Kev,
I've given both versions another spin.
I prefer the full version for sure, but this exercise has clarified why I was 'confused' before... it's because (to me) the "Bring it Back" line is really powerful and impactful, like a chorus in itself. I get confused when that suddenly recedes into the background compared to the main vocals of the verses. To me it sounds like those "Bring it Back" lines should if anything be more prominent than the verse vocal... they sound like the song's narrator is really desperate and emotional and that contrasts beautifully with the more arty delivery of the verse. Put em front and centre and you've got a brilliant punchy hook in them.
Would it be cheeky to ask for version number 3 ?!?!
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Personally I prefer the original Kev :)
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I think the original has a certain wild character to it that the stripped down version doesn't quite match. But I think that may come from tweaking the mix - if from the outset the intention was to go for the stripped down vibe then I think the vocal performance and treatment might be have been different and could easily work in the song or part of the song if you wanted to start "barer" and build.
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I think the original has a certain wild character to it that the stripped down version doesn't quite match. But I think that may come from tweaking the mix - if from the outset the intention was to go for the stripped down vibe then I think the vocal performance and treatment might be have been different and could easily work in the song or part of the song if you wanted to start "barer" and build.
I think your missing the point of both demo's. The point is about the clarity of the vocal on each demo. Which demo allows the vocal to be heard more clearly.
Johnny :)
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Many thanks to those of you who indulged me by voting, much appreciated.
Even though the original was preferred, I think I learned something from @Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771) 's suggestions, and agree that removing some of the mix gave more room for the vocals. I am still playing around and plan to adjust the mix to hopefully get the best of both.
Cheers,
Kevin
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I think I prefer the energy of the first version. There are elements of Bowie, particularly the harmonised vocals. The bring it back section coukd be brought forward in the mix a little, but I'm being picky there. I could see this as part of an indie opera. You shoukd think about a concept EP built around this one.
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Hi kev
Thanks for taking the time to remix it.
This is purely a personal assessment, I have to agree with shadowfax and JohnnyUk's comments, the stripped back version is a tad unbalanced, and the fx on the LVox grinds a bit, you have a great voice Kev, you don't need that on it, maybe some verb.
I found the bass a bit high in the mix too.
It might be that the vibe of the song just isn't my thing. It might pay you to do a few alternative mixes, I suggest starting from a completely un processed bunch of tracks, get the levels right, then only add fx if it really brings something to the song, if it's on all the time it won't.
Regards
cpm
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Definitely liked the second version more
Those bongos !
Well written tune but lacking variation
Maybe a middle section would help
The bring it back starts to get a bit annoying towards the end