[Tallmaleuk]

I have heard many songs where the verse chord progression sounds related to the pre-chorus chord progression and the chorus chord progression almost as if they were using the same chords but perhaps in a different order? I would very much like to develop some song ideas I have which sometimes contain a chorus but no verse or pre-chorus and I would like to write a verse which appears to use similar chords as the chorus so it has a similar harmonic flavor as the chorus but is different if that makes any sense?

How is this achieved? To write a verse and pre-chorus that has a similar but complimentary chord progression as the chorus does this involve using the same chords in a different order? Or does this involve adding more chords to the original chord progression for the chorus to develop a new chord progression which can then be used successfully for the pre-chorus and the verse?

Many thanks.

[KEROUAC1957]

I've heard songs before where the verse and chorus sound different but complimentary and I've been surprised to learn the chords are exactly the same. So I think sometimes it's a case of changing the timing or rhythm on the different parts and also the melody. You could also shuffle the chords around. I don't know much about the theory of complimentary chords so maybe someone else can help on that

[Boydie]

Welcome to the forum TALLMALEUK

I am going to be a bit controversial here and suggest that the actual chords do not really matter that much! 

You can either keep the chords the same throughout or make some variations


It is all about the melody, rhythm and timing!! IMHO

A good tip is to concentrate on these areas to add contrast to your songs

eg - if your verses use short words with lots of syllables have a chorus with long, drawn out words with held notes. And if your verse is using notes close together introduce some bigger ranges in the chorus

This change in melody, rhythm and timing will ensure that your sections sound distinct - but keeping the underlying chords the same (or similar) will ensure your song maintains a consistent feel/flow

There are lots (and lots and lots) of songs (especially pop songs) that use the same chords throughout for verse, pre-chorus and chorus - eg Price Tag by Jessie Jay and Get Lucky by Daft Punk

Listen to these songs and see how it is the melody, rhythm and timing (and production!) that separates the sections

I personally feel that if you have a MID / BRIDGE section then THIS is where you throw a "curve ball" and add a fresh chord sequence / twist / difference to break the song up before returning to the familiar verse/chorus

[Neil C]

I agree with Boydie and I'm going to add that all of the 'stuff' in pre-chorus is about creating tension and anticipation for the chorus.
However as I've started to understand there are lots of different genres and song structures, including some which dont event have a recognised verse. middle, chorus as la Beatles.
There are no rules..
 
Neil 

[hardtwistmusic]

There are no rules..

I think that it's more complex than that.  I think there ARE rules.... and they should be followed, except when they shouldn't be followed. 

I think that if you don't know the rules (and I am a perfect example of not knowing enough of the rules) then your music will (as mine does) sound "off" to real musicians. 

BUT... if you don't break the rules, you aren't all that likely to create something unique and memorable.  The real trick is learning which rules to follow and when to follow them.... and which rules to break, and when to break them.

The other "trick" is to LISTEN to other people you trust about whether the broken rules work or not. 

But even that is complex.  Sometimes, you just have to trust your own instincts and reject all the "shouldn'ts, couldn'ts, and wouldn'ts".    All in all, while there ARE rules, none of the rules are always safe or productive to follow. 

I suspect that's why I love writing songs so much.  It's neither science, nor art.  It's sort of "mathematical artistry."  The patterns are pure math.... but it's the artistic BREAKS in pattern that make things work for music. 

[montydog]

Boydie has pretty much covered it. I would point out that this concept that songs should follow a set of rules only really applies to commercial pop and rock music.Listen to great songwriters like Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan and Neil Young  or look at the structure of English folk and old time Americana and you'll see these rules simply don't apply.

If you're writing to get recorded by the "industry", you'll pretty much need to follow the rules but if not, I'd say write what pleases you.

[tone]

There's one simple bit of theory that you'll find invaluable if you're looking to develop your chord writing while keeping a strong theme: relative majors and minors.

Here it is in a nutshell. Each major chord has a relative minor chord, and vice-versa. Say for example you're writing a song based around C major (C-E-G). The relative minor of C is Am (A-C-E) notice how only one note is different when you compare the two chords. They both contain C & E.

So imagine your chord progression is the classic C, Am, F, G. Have a play around with the relative majors and minors of the chords you're already using, so F becomes Dm, and G becomes Em. You now have these progressions available to you:
C, Am, Dm, G
C, Am, F, Em
Am, Dm, Em, G
etc etc

(more infor here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_key)

If you strongly theme your verse around a major sounding progression, try giving your chorus a minor feel. Ditto for your bridge, mid-8 / whatever.

Also, get the circle of 5ths under your belt. It's a really simple bit of theory which will open the doors wide when it comes to middle 8s in particular. Being able to modulate off in a new direction AND find your way back is a skill worth having. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

[KEROUAC1957]

That's some great info there Tone which I didn't know. I'm sure I've used those chord progressions before because they sounded right but it's nice to know some theory. I've got a few songs which need middle 8s or something to break them up and i usually just play a succession of chords till I hit the right one but I think I'm going to start using some theory.