[Mystic Dreamer]

Hello.  I need help with music composition.  Specially with keyboard.

Answers to questions from guidelines:

Why did you write your song?

This song is intended to be played by a group I hope to form eventually.  Currently it's just a sheet music simulation.

What are your aims for your song? for example, to be published, for personal pleasure

Well, I hope for this to become part of the repertoire for a group I'm hoping to form.  I also plan for this to be one of the songs on an album entitled "Mystic Dreams"

What aspects of your song are you looking for comments about? try not to say 'all of it'

Currently I've just added keyboard to the song.  I'm not a keyboardist.  I do own a keyboard and I created what I have thus far by improvising and then writing down that I've done.  But I'm not sure if it add or clashes with the original music.

So I'm specifically seeking comments on the keyboard part and possible suggestions for how it might be changed or modified.

I'm open to all suggestions about any aspect of the song as well.

There are five tracks (counting the keyboard)

1. Bass guitar
2. Drum kit
3. Lead Guitar
4. Keyboard
5. Vocals

Please Note:  The following musical examples are entirely fabricated by my sheet music program, save of course for the vocals which I dubbed over them.

These tracks are only the first part of the song up to the start of the chorus. (the entire song is actually finished in terms of lyrics, etc.)

Here are the lyrics for these opening parts:

Humans

You are just a human
floating on a rock
living in society
learning how to talk

The say the way to express yourself
is through linguistic art
so put your thoughts to music
and sing them with your heart

(chorus starts here)
You'll be heard throughout the world,....

I've cut it short right now because I'm really interested in getting feedback on the music I have thus far, specially how the keyboard is going, or could be done better.

Here's the track excerpt without the keyboard:

Humans - Without Keyboard

Here's the same track with keyboard added:

Humans - With Keyboard

Just for completeness I've attached a PDF of the sheet music for this part of the song.  If you happen to look at that you'll see I'm only using the right hand on they keyboard.

Any suggestions from anyone who has better ideas for a keyboard part would be greatly appreciated.

Also, comments from everyone concerning whether or not what I already have written is working are welcome as well.

Sheet music attached below in a PDF

[hardtwistmusic]

My opinion is that it is a much better song with the keyboard part than without.  I would dial the keyboard back while the vocal is performing.  Actually probably turn ALL the lines down while the vocal is performing. 

I thought the accompaniment was good.  The prosody between the keyboard and the guitars was fine.  I heard  nothing that didn't fit.  Others have better ears for such things than I do, so you can't really take my endorsement to the bank just yet. 

[shadowfax]

Hi, you asked me to have a listen..so I did, I reckon the keyboard part just doesn't fit, I would put a synth pad way behind the track  (in the distance)..that's all I would do..I don't think the track needs a busy keyboard..

best, Kevin

[Mystic Dreamer]

@ hardtwistmusic - Thanks for taking a listen.  Your comments are pretty much in harmony with what I'm getting locally. 

@ shadowfax - Thanks for listening.  The synth pad in the background was what I originally had in mind.  But I don't know how to pull that off.  Typically they use pretty complex chords when doing that and I have no clue how they get that sound.  If I knew how to do that I'd give it a shot.

As far as the volume levels are concerned these recordings I posted are just my sheet music program doing its thing.  It does have a mixer that I could mess with the volumes, but I was basically holding off on that until I figure out exactly what to play.  Once I figure out what to play then I'll record it live and deal with the volume dynamics then.

[shadowfax]

Hi, not sure what you mean by ''typically they use complex chords'' who are they?
there are not many people in the ''pop'' or ''EDM'' industry that use what you call..complex chords, the vast majotity of people us the same 12/15 chords as everyone else..
it's what you put over the top of the chords that make a song/instrumental work..
off the top of my head I cannot recollect a recent succesful piece that used chords like...Fsharp13 or G13 or Ab9b5 or even Bdemented!! not saying they are never used..just very unlikely..

best, Kevin

[Mystic Dreamer]

Hi, not sure what you mean by ''typically they use complex chords'' who are they?

"They" would be keyboardists.  I'm not a keyboard player.  I have very limited knowledge of chords on the keyboard.   I tried playing chords I know and they just didn't sound right.  I even tried looking up chords on this site Interactive Piano Chord Visualizer, but I couldn't find the sound I'm looking for.

I'm also not even sure what key I've actually written this piece in.  The guitar is playing entirely in G minor pentatonic.  The piece started with this guitar riff.  This riff was the inspiration for the whole piece.  The Bass guitar is then also playing a G minor pentatonic bass line to back that up.

So I ended up just playing double-stops on the keyboard.  Even triads didn't sound right.  I'm actually looking to get the keyboard to do some different stuff as well, instead of just repeating the same riff over and over again.

I guess I need to go hang out with some keyboardists for a while and get some ideas. 

That was the idea behind starting this thread.  I thought maybe I could do it "virtually'.

[hardtwistmusic]

@ hardtwistmusic - Thanks for taking a listen.  Your comments are pretty much in harmony with what I'm getting locally. 

@ shadowfax - Thanks for listening.  The synth pad in the background was what I originally had in mind.  But I don't know how to pull that off.  Typically they use pretty complex chords when doing that and I have no clue how they get that sound.  If I knew how to do that I'd give it a shot.

As far as the volume levels are concerned these recordings I posted are just my sheet music program doing its thing.  It does have a mixer that I could mess with the volumes, but I was basically holding off on that until I figure out exactly what to play.  Once I figure out what to play then I'll record it live and deal with the volume dynamics then.

What "sheet music program" are you using?   Does it save to Midi format?   I use "Notation Composer."  It allows me to turn each track up (in volume) or down.  Additionally, I can change each track from one instrument to another with over 100 instruments available. 

If you CAN save to midi format, you could e-mail your composition to me, and I could tinker with some instrumentation changes and send it back to you.  That's not a great solution because it leaves you far too remote from the creative process on YOUR song.  But it's a way to test out some of your ideas on instrumentation. 

Additionally....  there is a free software you can download called "Anvil."   It might (or might not) do some of the things Notation does.   

[Mystic Dreamer]

Hi HTM,

I'm using Melody Assistant as the sheet music program.

I want to mention that I'm not too concerned with how well the music actually sounds in the sheet music program.   I just write it up for the sake of being able to print it out.  The music actually sounds much better played live.   This is why I haven't been working on volumes and sounds in the sheet music program so much.  It's never going to sound like how I actually play it.

For one thing the guitar riff doesn't even sound exactly the way I actually play it.  I just type it in as close as I can get it.   Same thing goes for the bass, drums, and certainly the vocals, etc.

I just like to have my songs written up on sheet music, especially to be able to print out the sheet music for future reference.

In any case, here's the midi of what I have so far.   This song is quite a bit longer than this but much of it is just repeat as far as form goes.  All that really changes is lyrics.

Also, I have guitar "fills" here and there.  But again, they don't sound like how I actually play them.  I just typed them in as close as I could get them.   I also didn't want to get into trying to mess with 32nd notes and rests etc, in an effort to duplicate what I actually play.  That just makes the sheet music look horrible anyway.

The idea of the sheet music is just to give an idea of how it goes.  But when it's actually played it's played in the pocket.

So anyway, you are welcome to mess with this if you like.  I haven't had time to do much with it since I started this thread.   I was mostly looking for keyboard ideas when I posted this thread.  I definitely want to have keyboard in this song.  Our group will have a keyboard player and we don't have to have him just sitting around doing nothing during this song.

I was originally going to put in some sort of medieval church organ in the background, but I didn't know how to do that, so I tried just sticking in some pentatonic rock organ.

Also, this is just "brainstorming" right now.  Hopefully once I get something I'm happy with I'll work on it further and do more with it.  Right now I just have two measures of keyboard and I just copy and pasted that.  But I'll have it change more dynamically as I go.

I haven't had much time to work on this since I started this thread.  Life has a way of calling me away to do other things. 

Here's the midi of what I have so far.

[hardtwistmusic]

I think I've got the midi file.  In the meantime, how are you attaching files here.  I didn't know you could do that. 

[Mystic Dreamer]

When you post a reply just below the box you type your reply into it says "Additional Options..." if you click on that you can see and Attach: option.

They only allow for files 128 kb or less, but a midi file is generally quite a bit smaller than that.  I think the one I had just attached was only 8 kb.

By the way, let me know how you make out loading it into your sheet music program.  It should contain the lyrics and a chorus singing them as "Ooooo's or Ahhhhh's".  I just wonder if that will load in to your sheet music program.

[hardtwistmusic]

Okay.  (Assuming I can figure out how to attach this) here it is.  

I didn't change a note.  I did subtract some notes, and copy some measures to an additional instrument line.  Everything Else I did is just changes to instrumentation.  

The purpose is not to suggest that I have "improved" your music, just to demonstrate how much difference you can create with instrumentation changes if your software allows them.  I'll go look up your software to see if I can get a clue about  how it operates.

And the lyrics did not come through on my copy when I loaded it into my software.  Probably just means we're not completely compatible.  

Okay, here goes.  

P.S...  Play the Midi file on your software, then play it with Windows Media Player and see that they sound the same.  Sometimes sound changes with different programs.  The Windows Media Player will play more "true" than different softwares sometimes.  WMP should play midi files.  

NOPE:  Would not take my attachment.  There is apparently a permission from the administrators that is required and that I've never gotten. 

If you send me a PM with an e-mail address, I'll send you both an mp3 version and the Midi version. 

In the meantime, I'll try to get that permission from the admins. 

[hardtwistmusic]

Okay.... got the permission, and it still won't send. 

BTW.... now that I understand what Melody Maker is, I'll suggest that you do an internet search for "Notation Player."   

It's a free midi player by the people who make "Notation Composer."   It allows you to physically see the staves and all notes for every midi file.  Shows all the tracks and follows in time as it plays.  I'm not sure Melody Maker does (or does not) do that. 

You cannot modify anything, but if Melody Maker has some limits in that area, it will be really helpful to you. 

[Mystic Dreamer]

Ok, I sent you a PM with an email address where you can send the files.

The program I am using is called Melody Assistant.

You can see it here, or even download a copy,  Melody Assistant.   You can use it for free with unlimited time, but some functions are not available unless you purchase it for something like $35.  I bought my version because I wanted all the capabilities.

I really like this sheet music program.  It takes a while to get used the user interface, but I've had it for years so I'm really happy with it.

By the way, when I save the file as a midi, and then open it as a midi the lyrics come back in with the midi import.   So the lyrics are saved in the midi file.