The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Writing Process => Topic started by: tone on July 13, 2009, 11:57:26 PM
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What method works for you and why?
I'll go first, I always write the music and melody first as I find I need a meter to write my lyrics to. Having said that I did write lyrics first once, but the song wasn't one of my best.
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music first for me too - maybe you should start a topic: which do you finish first? I would not be able to answer that one though :D
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Music first, always, (but then you know that Tone!) I've never been able to write a song where the lyrics come first, but I always seem to just use lyrics that I can sing easily! Might not be the best approach, but that's just me.
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I write both together, usually its all done in one sitting, next day, another song lol
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I write both together, usually its all done in one sitting, next day, another song lol
All in one sitting? You jammy git! That happens for me so rarely, but when it does, it's usually my best work.
You should post something up for review Aaron :)
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I've tried both, but not settled into either yet. Still finding my feet. :(
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Sometimes music "comes to me" and sometimes lyrics "come to me." I have an extensive collection of both (music and lyrics that have come to me seperately), and I listen to / read them, sometimes for years, until an "other half" which can compliment the existing creation comes to me. Sometimes that time never comes, and they remain instrumentals or poems. ::)
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Sometimes one, sometimes the other haha - depends on how I feel and whether I happen to be playing the guitar when something comes into my head. I'm surprised at the results so far tbh - would have expected more varied approaches.
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I usually have lyric first as i've been writing lyrics for years and music for just a few months. I find my words have tohave a point before music comes to me. Saying that I do struggle to create the music weather I do it last or first. ???
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I usually have lyric first as i've been writing lyrics for years and music for just a few months. I find my words have tohave a point before music comes to me. Saying that I do struggle to create the music weather I do it last or first. ???
That's interesting because for me, 99% of the time the music will come first and then however the music makes me feel will essentially shape the lyrics.
Years ago I did used to write lyrics first and I'd have piles of paper with lyrics on, some would get used and some would just collect dust.
Occasionally a line or a title will pop into my head and I'll think, "I really want to write a song with that line in it or with that title!" But I generally find it difficult to develop from there until I've got some music going.
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I usually have lyric first as i've been writing lyrics for years and music for just a few months. I find my words have tohave a point before music comes to me. Saying that I do struggle to create the music weather I do it last or first. ???
Years ago I did used to write lyrics first and I'd have piles of paper with lyrics on, some would get used and some would just collect dust.
Occasionally a line or a title will pop into my head and I'll think, "I really want to write a song with that line in it or with that title!" But I generally find it difficult to develop from there until I've got some music going.
Thats what I have. Paper everywhere. lol.
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usually lyrics, unless ive got a tune in my head i need to get down then ill try to write some lyrics to work with. to be honest i dont even know if thats true cos i never really think of it till im a good way into the song. but i always struggle with last verses. never really happy most of the time. i do alot of repeating to just get it over with and maybe go back later
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usually lyrics, unless ive got a tune in my head i need to get down then ill try to write some lyrics to work with. to be honest i dont even know if thats true cos i never really think of it till im a good way into the song. but i always struggle with last verses. never really happy most of the time. i do alot of repeating to just get it over with and maybe go back later
A lot of the time I'll have just a few lyrics in a song if I feel it's all it needs. I don't try and cram extra words in just to satisfy convention.
I do get criticised for it, but who cares?
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n-n-n-necro!
I know this thread is very old, but it's a damn interesting point of discussion.
Why music first? Why lyrics first? Do you think of lyrics with a vague idea of the melody behind them? Do you bend your lyrics about to fit the music you end up coming up with?
I think there's a lot of questions related to this, many of which have often crossed my mind.
I know that personally I will generally come up with lyrics that have an intended 'song' that would go with them. The lyrics get written on paper but the music is in my mind and I imagine the whole song at once. Occasionally I come up with lyrics alone and sometimes do the same with music.
I think my way of 'writing' the music in my head as I come up with the lyrics was borne of a lack of access to instruments until very recently and also an idea of where the music needed to rise and fall to support the message and how the whole arrangement should be to maximise emotive power.
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Both at the same time,it never happened to me that i got my melody first and then lyrics
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I have written songs in a bunch of different ways:
Sometimes I have a stanza written which I put to music, and the song grows from there
Sometimes I play around on guitar, humming melodies and then a line appears. Or I use place-holder nonsense (scrambled eggs reference here!) until I write something more befitting.
Sometimes I just sing nonsense (driving is a great time for this) until a hook line appears. I have written entire sings at the wheel...singing the lines over and over so I don't forget them before I get home!
Sometimes I have a lovely chord sequence that can sit for months unused until I work out an opening melody.
Sometimes I have the idea for a decent song and lyric, but nothing comes to me for months (some are still waiting!)
Sometimes I have young Bob Cratchit do all the work for me, while I eat mince pies by the fire...
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Nearly always out, in the woods walking the dogs , then almost without realising it i'm singing a tune in my head , sometimes i record it on my phone whilst in the woods and hope no one walks round the corner whilst i'm singing into my phone , i have done whole songs in my head before , and forgotten them before i've got home !!!
a few times i've just played stuff on the guitar and thought , yep , thats a song. but i dont have a set method at all.
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I don't think I've ever written lyrics first, I've occasionally had a title in my head before and then written the music around the mood that it evokes but lyrics are always last for me. I tend to write the music, sing nonsense to get a melody, and then write lyrics around that melody.
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i write everything on acoustic guitar first then the lyrics which i find to be a right pain sometimes, takes me ages to be happy with getting lyrics what i'm happy with
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For me it's always music and more importantly MELODY first.
In my humble opinion, when you are writing a song, the melody is the most important thing (in relation to the chords of course). I am not downplaying the importance of lyrics, but I don't call myself a poet, I call myself a songwriter. As such, I aim to write songs that move people and convey a particular emotion. I also want people to be able to sing along to my songs so that it stays with them for longer than one listen. And this I think comes mainly from a strong melody.
So I always set out to find a good melody before I add any words. But that is what works for me, and I would love to hear more from the people who write lyrics first and see how they approach writing a song.
All the best,
Nathaniel James
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got it spot on there nathaniel the most important thing about a song is the melody like!
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I think a good lyricist is someone who sows a melody into their words ....well thought out lyrics can only add to a song not take away...think of your favorite songs, i bet they have lyrics that really talk to you...`
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hmmmmmm i dont think lyrics really mean that much in songs some songs i mean, songsthatcry i kinda get what you mean but its going into things too deep i reckon, theres loads of great songs that probably dont have great lyrics but people love them (peoples opinions)
for me its either a good song or not, dont matter about lyrics melody or chords??
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hmmmmmm i dont think lyrics really mean that much in songs some songs i mean, songsthatcry i kinda get what you mean but its going into things too deep i reckon, theres loads of great songs that probably dont have great lyrics but people love them (peoples opinions)
for me its either a good song or not, dont matter about lyrics melody or chords??
I have to disagree with you quite wholeheartedly.There are a lot of songs out there that are extensively popular that have bugger all lyrical meaning but they are pretty fad-based and get old within a few months and stop getting airtime. The ones that are popular and last generally have the distinguishing factor of good lyrics. Yes, some don't, but they are they absolute minority in this field.
Lyrical content means the difference between a good song and a great song if you already have a catchy riff and lyrical melody. They don't necessarily make a bad song (one that is unappealing musically) into a good one though.
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I watched a programme last night about the bee gees
There lyrics are pretty lame but they wrote some amazing melodies & rythmn based songs
They just work ( well for me anyway )
I think melody and hooks are king ;D
Lyrics are a nice luxury in a song really :)
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all about opinions at the end of the day but i think my point was really that great songs dont have to have great meaningful lyrics aslong aslong as theirs a great melody it dont matter about the lyric content or if the have meaning!
jumpin jack flash for me is one of the greatest songs their is, i think their gret lyrics, some people would probably say they aint great lyrics and dont mean anything, those lyrics could be about anything but that gets ya buzzing as its a great song!
anyhow am probably not great with putting me point across haha, but for me lyrics will only be great in a song if the melody is great, if the lyrics are great and meaningful but the melody aint then its its not gonna a great song!
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I watched a programme last night about the bee gees
There lyrics are pretty lame but they wrote some amazing melodies & rythmn based songs
They just work ( well for me anyway )
I think melody and hooks are king ;D
Lyrics are a nice luxury in a song really :)
i watched it as well and the other 2 programs about them...and i was listening to the lyrics..yes there "lame" but perfect for their songs..they got the right sentiment...has for their melodies...not many wrote better!
it`s not that lyrics have to be meaningful ...but to some writers like Bob Dylan..they did have a lot of meaning and there definitely a feature of his songs,,as well as the melody and music..
.
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I watched a programme last night about the bee gees
There lyrics are pretty lame but they wrote some amazing melodies & rythmn based songs
They just work ( well for me anyway )
I think melody and hooks are king ;D
Lyrics are a nice luxury in a song really :)
"You can tell by the way I use my walk I'm a woman's man"
What we see here in this line is the primary character of the narrative, we'll call him WM (Woman's Man) henceforth, is confident and has a high level of sexual experience, which he demonstrates in his style of movement so as to display to the opposite gender that he is sexually capable in an attempt to initiate a sexual relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
This excessive need for sex is characteristic of someone with a sex addiction. This idea of a sex addiction is further developed in the chorus where WM explains that he does not care 'whether you're a mother or whether you're a brother', which suggests that he has such an addition to sex that he has turned to bisexualism and promotes adultery just so he can engage in coitus with more people. Further more, the idea that he does this to 'stay alive' shows that the addiction has warped his mind to the point where he thinks he must have sex in excessive amounts or he will die.
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I watched a programme last night about the bee gees
There lyrics are pretty lame but they wrote some amazing melodies & rythmn based songs
They just work ( well for me anyway )
I think melody and hooks are king ;D
Lyrics are a nice luxury in a song really :)
"You can tell by the way I use my walk I'm a woman's man"
What we see here in this line is the primary character of the narrative, we'll call him WM (Woman's Man) henceforth, is confident and has a high level of sexual experience, which he demonstrates in his style of movement so as to display to the opposite gender that he is sexually capable in an attempt to initiate a sexual relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
This excessive need for sex is characteristic of someone with a sex addiction. This idea of a sex addiction is further developed in the chorus where WM explains that he does not care 'whether you're a mother or whether you're a brother', which suggests that he has such an addition to sex that he has turned to bisexualism and promotes adultery just so he can engage in coitus with more people. Further more, the idea that he does this to 'stay alive' shows that the addiction has warped his mind to the point where he thinks he must have sex in excessive amounts or he will die.
That's world class Corsair ;D
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I watched a programme last night about the bee gees
There lyrics are pretty lame but they wrote some amazing melodies & rythmn based songs
They just work ( well for me anyway )
I think melody and hooks are king ;D
Lyrics are a nice luxury in a song really :)
"You can tell by the way I use my walk I'm a woman's man"
What we see here in this line is the primary character of the narrative, we'll call him WM (Woman's Man) henceforth, is confident and has a high level of sexual experience, which he demonstrates in his style of movement so as to display to the opposite gender that he is sexually capable in an attempt to initiate a sexual relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
This excessive need for sex is characteristic of someone with a sex addiction. This idea of a sex addiction is further developed in the chorus where WM explains that he does not care 'whether you're a mother or whether you're a brother', which suggests that he has such an addition to sex that he has turned to bisexualism and promotes adultery just so he can engage in coitus with more people. Further more, the idea that he does this to 'stay alive' shows that the addiction has warped his mind to the point where he thinks he must have sex in excessive amounts or he will die.
That's world class Corsair ;D
But is it true??
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i never even gave ita second of thought what these lyrics from the beegees couldbe about
nice analysis, Corsair, but i just thought it was about dancing and going out in an attempt to stay alive (to survive the boredom of the working week)
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That's world class Corsair ;D
yes but totaly wrong what he sings is:
hell you can tell by the way i abuse my wok
im a woman & ive no time to cook
its about overworked mums & keeping the family happy ;D
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oh jeez, i thought this song was obvious
it's about a man in tight trousers walking around with a big cock inside them!
it has nothing to do with a woman's role in the kitchen - although that is the best place for them :-), it's about how he "believes" that that is what women want - it' a very 70's stereotypical view of women fawning after men.... yawn......
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it's about a man in tight trousers walking around with a big cook inside them!
ok so you do the cooking at home jmacdonut!
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See, after posting that I realised I should've said something about that line 'you can look the other way' :P
hell you can tell by the way i abuse my wok
im a woman & ive no time to cook
Given how high the voice is I wouldn't be surprised if he were a woman...
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I think it's important to try both, consistently... it'll help build your songwriting muscles!
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i dont want muscles are there any songwriting exercises for women?
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i dont want muscles are there any songwriting exercises for women?
... sing in the kitchen?
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Every time I listen to a local, signed or national artist I always see these 2 common denominators together.
* I can always tell when the melody was written after the music which drastically reduces the note options for melody.
* the song usually always sucks
Here is a music theory experiment I put together on youtube to draw a paralell for you to make your own judgement.
Cheers
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i dont want muscles are there any songwriting exercises for women?
haha... Like a songwriting treadmill or something?
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Music first everytime.
although recently i started thinking about how I come up with lyrics a bit more. I used to always write about myself or what was around me but I recently just started trying random exercises, making up little (untrue) stories in my head to write about or singing jibberish and then finding words that fit the sounds. Sometimes I find the meaning comes later ha! a mate was telling me recently that he finds random old skool websites and steals sentences from them to get him going (kinda weird but actually worked for me.) For example I was reading about document translation at work the other day... http://www.milengo.com/blog/document-translation-mt-change-the-playing-field/ and I ended up writing a song about the amount of information in the world and how machines manage it all. actually turned out pretty good I think. More than anything though, it inspired some music to come out, wether I use the lyrics in the end or not. It's all about the process.
Anyway I guess it's whatever works for you... I think too often we try to stick to some sort of songwriters code when really it's just about experimenting and being creative with new ideas.
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Both at the same time, I don't like having to compromise with myself
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Melody always first. Lyrics second.
Rick
http://soundcloud.com/red-planet
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I havent actually written a song yet - but I've had two suggestions from friends. One is a pretty well known artist and she says, have a concept and come up with a key lyrical phrase and melody at the same time - then work the lyrics and rest around that..
the other says write a letter to someone about something that has meaning to you, then reverse engineer the letter into lyrics - just keeping in mind what kinds of chord progressions could be suitable
I will try both :)