[cowparsleyman]

I'm really enjoying it here, like stepping into a pub where everyone knows you.

I would value your opinion on this topic.

Sometime ago I decided to work on my own material, and try and avoid spending time on re recording someone elses (usually famous hits by famous artists), it was rare that I could bring something new.

1. There is also the added disadvantage that everyone knows how it should sound, they'll listen out for the very hooks that pricked up your ears in the first place.

2. Time spent on their stuff is time taken from mine.

3.  They usually had very accomplished arrangers, engineers and producers to help craft the finished sound, as well as very high quality equipment, and studio environments to make the sound perfect.

4. I had to ask myself, Why I was re recording it, was it just a way of saying thank you for the pleasure it brought me, or was it that I thought it would sound better if I did it, or what? I really could not answer this and I think the results confirmed this.

5. Have you ever re recorded a famous song and people have said, Wow, that's much better than the original?


What do you think?
 

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Record your own stuff.

If you play live you can do a few covers, why not?

In my performing days a hundred years ago I only did covers...I wasn't writing then.

And you really ought to listen to Neil Young. Maybe you won't like him but you ought to give him a whirl.

America did 'Horse With No Name' by the way

[The S]

Well, do what you feel you want to do.

Recording other peoples songs is the way to go about getting better faster and learn. You get insight into how they arranged the song, how they played etc etc. It's a great way to learn and has been tried and tested through the age of time. A lot of the greats started out doing a lot of covers or in some cases covers only. Look at Dylans first album for instance, almost all covers.

Eventually, though not for all, you want to move forward and try out what you've learned on your own songs. That my friend is when the real fun begins. But like I said, it's not for everyone, so there's no wrong in wanting to stick with doing covers.

And no, I haven't had the pleasure of someone telling me my cover of a famous song was better than the original. 

Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Peter

[hardtwistmusic]

If you're going to perform live, some things that I've discovered/observed might help you.  

While I would prefer to do my own material, what really has to matter most is how to keep your audience engaged.  

I've learned from (sometimes painful) experience that audiences tend to crave familiarity.  The formula I follow is "four covers of material carefully selected to appeal to the specific audience I'm performing for, THEN (and only then) mix in one of my originals.  Then three covers, and one original.  Only when one (or more of the originals has become "familiar" to the specific audience should it be allowed to be excepted from the "one original per four songs" formula.  

If I just start with (what I hope are brilliant and listenable) originals, I'll never know what my audience really thinks of the originals.  I must (MUST) engage them with covers they know and love, then they will indulge me with limited listens.  If it isn't familiar, they will NOT INDULGE ME with listens.  Simple as that.  

If they haven't heard it before, they (most of your audience) are unlikely to be "wowed" by the brilliance of your work, even if it IS brilliant.  And, they will like what they like regardless of how you try to "sell it."  I'm often shocked when my "best song" fails to get attention from an audience while one of the "little songs" I've written DOES get attention.  And then it's different with the next audience.  One audience wants something different than the next.  "Audience likes" must be collected over time and taken in context over time.  

Have other people ever said "that's better than the original" to me?   Yes, but they were flattering me.  The meaningful feedback I get is "as good as the original."  How do I know?  Because the "better than the original" often follows a rather poor performance by me, and the "good as the original" only happens when I nail it.

Hope that helps.  

[Skub]

The Count and others make good points.

Playing covers and songwriting are different disciplines imo.

It's informative to know how songs are structured and the formulae used to create sounds in different genres. There is more to the story however,just because you can play Sultans of Swing note for note doesn't mean you are Mark Knopfler and knowing The Thrill is Gone won't make you BB King.

What I'm saying is..when you cover a song,in most cases it's already been done better than any cover version,so covers are a good way to learn chops and the most common way to earn livable money as a gigging musician. It served me well for years. Even playing music I didn't like there were still moments when I came across little chord changes or something which activated my inner sponge and I stored it for my own use in another context.

Aside from entertaining yourself,or as a learning tool,I can see no reason to bother recording a note for note cover of a song. I learned them because it paid me. There are perhaps good reasons for doing a 'version'.

But..anyway..

Songwriting is a separate skill set. You don't need to play any musical instrument (though it is useful) you just need ideas that can become songs. For most there is no money at all in this game. 

It's often said and maybe frequently unheeded,but being the best you and working towards your own musical objectives is original content in itself. No one has been you before. Certainly there will be influences and folk will hear them,but unless that's been deliberate,then it's all part of what makes you what you are.

[cowparsleyman]

Thanks all for your considered responses.

This is very interesting

So what is familiar? And if it is familiar how did IT get familiar , all songs are unknown once upon a time, I remember when Police released 'De doo doo do de daa daa daa' I hated it with a passion, but i grew to like it, is it just exposure? if so wouldn't it be better to play ones own songs more and give them exposure?

So If I play 3 or 4 covers, which ones should I pick, the audience might not know any of them? and If I pick something like Space Oditty by Bowie, what can I bring to it? I've play that live before and got cheers and whooping but I guess it's directed not to me but for Bowie for writing a great song, I'm on the delivery guy, the reponse would be the same if Mr X from New York did it, or Miss Y from Frankfurt.

The other day I heard Skin by Maz o Connor for the first time, it's a brilliant piece of work in my view, I didn't need it to be familiar, I learned soo much from it.

I agree with the comments about covers improving technique, both in playing and delivery, when well delivered live they are an easy way to get appreciation and a feeling of what it's like to be 'famous' that is being clapped for something you have offered to strangers, I guess this is the drug that starts people on the road for fame...

With regards to songwriting, it's a dark art, but now I'm in this forum, I'm giving my work more attention, and taking the comments very seriously, adding and taking away, like a painter, until I'm happy with it, I'm not changing it to suit them, but using their comments constructively.

Thanks again.

CPM

[Martinswede]

I've never preformed in any public venues with my own songs nor sung covers. So for that part of your question I have little to offer.
When it comes to repertoire style and concept is something you should consider. 60's pop songs in singer songwriter country territory might be more likeable then your favorite mix of indiepop/altrock/disco/chanson.
My advice is that you consider what your strengths and weaknesses are. (We all have both of them.)
Imo some artistic qualities are hard to deliver through someone else s music. One artist can do a kick a** cover of one song and fail at another.
In a sense you have to give the audience what they want. If your really lucky they want you.

Martin   

[tone]

There are two ways of looking at this (for me at least). One is do whatever brings you most happiness. Life is short, and we all want to be happy. Do it, and try not to over analyse it.

On the other hand, you are the only person who has written your songs, and the only person likely to play them. I say go out there and share the gift you've been given. There might be a dozen other people playing the same covers in just one small town. Be brave.

For what it's worth, I very rarely play covers, and if I do, it's because it's a song I love that I just feel like playing in that moment. The rest of the time, I play my songs. Because I'm performing mainly for my own benefit. If the audience aren't into it, that's a shame, but not a deal breaker!

[cowparsleyman]

I've never preformed in any public venues with my own songs nor sung covers. So for that part of your question I have little to offer.
When it comes to repertoire style and concept is something you should consider. 60's pop songs in singer songwriter country territory might be more likeable then your favorite mix of indiepop/altrock/disco/chanson.
My advice is that you consider what your strengths and weaknesses are. (We all have both of them.)
Imo some artistic qualities are hard to deliver through someone else s music. One artist can do a kick a** cover of one song and fail at another.
In a sense you have to give the audience what they want. If your really lucky they want you.

Martin   

Thanks Martin

first thanks for you comments, they make real sense.

second, I'm going to use that line in a song

" give the audience what they want. If your really lucky they want you"

Thanks for it

CPM

[cowparsleyman]

There are two ways of looking at this (for me at least). One is do whatever brings you most happiness. Life is short, and we all want to be happy. Do it, and try not to over analyse it.

On the other hand, you are the only person who has written your songs, and the only person likely to play them. I say go out there and share the gift you've been given. There might be a dozen other people playing the same covers in just one small town. Be brave.

For what it's worth, I very rarely play covers, and if I do, it's because it's a song I love that I just feel like playing in that moment. The rest of the time, I play my songs. Because I'm performing mainly for my own benefit. If the audience aren't into it, that's a shame, but not a deal breaker!

Thanks Tone, you kind of say what I'm thinking.

CPM

[Ramshackles]

I think it is incredibly valuable to learn and analyze songs of other artists you like. It helps you grow as a songwriter.

It can also be useful to learn and re-imagine songs that aren't necessarily something you would normally play:

- Again, helps you grow and learn what sounds good/what people seem to like
- Helps you learn how to arrange music
- Helps you grow as a performer

In terms of actually recording it however, the only benefit that comes to mind would be if you are very serious about it all and trying to e.g run a youtube channel and build up an audience by regularly posting videos.
A few covers can take the pressure off having to write lots of songs and can enable you to reach a wider audience (essentially by appealing to fans of the band you are covering).

A couple of artists come to mind that initially became well known through covers:

- Pomplamoose (they have done loads of covers:

)
- First Aid Kit; they specifically became widely known due to a single cover a fleet foxes song:

But, as tone says, if its not fun, why bother?

As for question 5; we did this naffy live video a while back:

Don't know if it classifies as a cover of any particular version since it is a folk song, but I am most familiar with the version by Joan Baez and thats what we based it off. We usually get a very positive response from it when we have played live, don't know if thats because our version is particularly good or just because the guitar picking is soo darn tiring that on stage I have to stomp my feet and grimace to get through the song & people tend to respond more to the effort I have to put in!

[cowparsleyman]

Thanks Ramshackles

Yeah, I agree on the technique thing, it does help one become more accomplished, I always wanted to play like Hendrix, and when I couldn't, it was then Larry Carlton, then Ralph McTell, then Mark King, then Segovia, then.....all too much, and impossible.

So I didn't realise it at the time, but I was indeed creating me. This allowed me to translate my ideas in my head to ideas on the fretboard, which is a real privilage.

I'll take a listen to your recommendations, thanks for those.

As for serious? well I'm not at all, I'm just soaking in all the comments from this forum and hopefully improve some of the songs that I've not finished yet....

As for covers...I guess I'll play the ones that set me on fire, and that I feel that I have something to bring to them.

My favourite cover at the moment is Dido - White Flag - the lyrics are spot on, as is her creamy vocal (PERFECT vocal production), love the gated snare... don't like the intro though, nor the video. I feel I have nothing I can offer that song, so I leave it as is.

CPM

[Wicked Deeds]

I've covered one or two songs in the bands that I have been a part of down the years.  I should have
covered more as it would have revealed one or two secrets about different writers and how they approach their writing. However, I was really switched on to writing my own stuff from the moment I picked up a guitar 37 years ago.  It would be be good to cover one or two of my favourites.  Lloyd Cole would probably fall victim to my efforts :-) Writing is still what makes me tick.  I still don't have a burning desire to cover anyone's work and I feel that I have been rewarded over and over again by sticking to my own music.

Paul

[cowparsleyman]

Thanks Wicked Deeds,

37 years that's a long time.

Lloyd Cole, what a guy, his songs are just brilliant, even now they stick in my ears.

Great that you keep doing your own stuff, if Lloyd Cole would have just done covers, the world would be a different place.

CPM

[dasntn]

Hi Cowparsleyman

I've spent years playing other peoples music in a covers band (or 3!) Never thought to record the cover songs, to be honest. The idea that this is a good way to hone arranging and recording skills strikes me as very valid, and perhaps something I should have done.

I did start recording my (and my co-composer) own songs about 20 years ago, mostly for our own benefit.  Then about three years ago we started to gig them in public as a duo, at first based on the two covers, one of ours approach, but we now play 4 or 5 of ours, and then drop in a cover, then more of ours etc. and it seems to go down pretty well on the whole. (We also get PRS income from performing our own songs - a nice, if somewhat small, bonus!)

You are the only person who knows your songs, knows what they should sound like, and can create them. If you don't record them, they will never get heard, and we (i.e. other people) will never get a chance to hear them. Go for it!

cheers
Dave