[mihkay]

Hi chaps.
It's been a while since I was really active here,  for reasons that you probably have no interest in and I have no desire to explain. 
But I'm back making music and will hopefully be back to my useful full contribution self from now on.

However, during my hiatus I have been trying to improve my production skills, which is why I'm requesting your help dear forumites. 

The Futurelearn course "How to write your first song" has been mentioned on the forum. I took part in the course, well it was free!     The main thing I got from it was a set of lyrics. These lyrics I've put to music.....not great music I'll grant you but I have used the resulting song to try out my production skills. The result is here:-

https://soundcloud.com/mihkay/my-town

But what I'd like to know is simple.

1. What was your favourite bit?
2. What was your least favourite bit?

The lyrics aren't mine so don't worry about them, the tune is very simple so ignore that and the playing is clunky so ignore that. What I'd like to know is what bits did I get the production right or wrong?

All comments gratefully appreciated.

cheers guys

Mihkay

[seriousfun]

You are too harsh on yourself. The playing is good and I really liked the song. It had lots of different elements and the production sounded really clean and clear to me. I could hear and define avery instrument, always a good indicator of clarity.

What I really Liked.
============

The double hits were used very effectively. Loved those they added really good impact.

The fast arp going in the background added some lovely texture.

The breakdown at 2:30 was lovely it broke the grove up nicely.  I think immediately prior to that is where I would have had the solo ( but then what do I know )

The ending. Really nice



What I didn't Like so much
=================

The start - I think starting with the vocal and then the drum hits didn't work for me. If the hits came first as well as after It might be better, hard to say without trying it.

Arangement wise I think the solo was too early in the piece. Stick it closer to the back end.


These are just my opnions of course and I am sure others will differ greatly but I guess enough comments and you can get a good judge on what is working and what is not.

This is a neat song, you have done a top job with this.

[shadowfax]

It's a bit crazy to say Ignore the tune..the playing and the lyrics, but ok..I will.

the production is good enough to put the song across, nothing stand out fab or stand out not fab..
production is such a subjective thing...it's ok really, we'd all do it different I'm sure, but it's fine on this song..it could be better but it's good enough..

fav bit was the organ...good job on the singing!!

best, Kevin

[empyreantic]

Welcome back I'll do this the simple way:

1) Fav bit: the chorus, especially the way it kicks off + the guitars added to the second verse
2) Least fav bit: the intro, which doesn't quite work for me - for this kind of song I'd rather use an instrumental to begin with and then hold back a bit for the verse.

To be honest I was kind of put of for most of the first verse, but then the chorus came and lifted the whole song. I really enjoyed the rest of it, in fact I'm gonna listen again now I feel like if the sound was only a bit different this could almost be an indie-rock song... Maybe you could just change the lyrics and tweak the song a bit - then you'll have a really good song that's all yours.

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Very good!

You said you only want production advice but.....

I don't mind the voice intro and the vocal's not bad at all - reminds me a bit of Elvis (not Presley) or is it Joe Jackson? The organ sound could be better for me but that's a matter of personal taste of course. Least fave bit is the sort of mandolin-style guitar or whatever it is that comes in after the solo.

I think the solo is in the right place, but the backing drops a bit too much behind it I think...

The production sounds fine to me but i'm no great judge, so no help at all.

There was something that I think could be improved but i don't know how, and that's the transitions between some of the parts. At 0.48....at 1.56 where the mandolin thing comes in...the re-introduction of the guitar at 3.00....

Ending's nice and complements the vocal intro i think.

I trust you'll get better advice than mine from the production heavyweights.

Nice song performed well.

[mc303]

great upbeat song, excellent hook, would have preffered clean distortion guitar solo because the overall sound seems to drop out, but thats just how i thought it would have emphasised the overall punchy sound you have, lots of potential

[johnlondon]

Hi Mihkay,

I am far to inexperienced to comment about the relative strengths weakness of the production.  But as someone who also completed the futurelearn course and listened to virtually all two hundred plus finished songs ( over the six weeks). I can say with a degree of certainty yours rates as one of the top five finished projects.

Did feel the lead guitar section sounded thin, could easily be beefed up. other than that a solid finished production, to my admittedly inexperienced ears.

john

[TheButcher]

Hello;

ok; on the mix:


I think the whole tracks lacks low end stuff; there are too many high frequencies for me - that high guitar in the 2nd verse. especially the cymbals and hi hats are a little distracting to the ear.
sounds bad?

no no no. It s a good mix and a good production - might also be a personal taste thing

song is good - i like it

good you re back.

peace B

[Skub]

I know doodly about production n' schitt,I leave that to those qualified to comment. I loved the song and for the most part the sound. The lead guitar break cries out for a good honking telecaster twanging session,it really would be the icing on the cake.

[Jamie]

Hi M, good song, well played and sung, liked the break where the vocal continues on its own. Good hook in the chorus. Mix sounded fine to me. I didn't like mandolin style instrument it didn't really fit the song IMHO! Doesn't sound like Paul  Weller, but a couple of times I thought of him.
Nice one!
Cheers
Jamie

[daviddrymusic]

Well man,

Really liked this. I think the chorus is really really strong. The melody and lyrics fit perfect. I agree on the start, the vocal on its own maybe doesn't work the best. But it works great on the second verse i think.

Its a great tune. Just listening again. The chorus is mega. You hear twice before the 1.20 mark aswell which is good stuff I think.

I enjoyed it!

[nooms]

really enjoyed this mikhay
love the vocals and the punch of the track
vocal melody & really strong chorus, lifts right up out of water..thats the best part for me..
not sure what the lyrics are but they sound interesting.. i like the footprints in the rain, it doesnt rhyme and takes you by surprise each time and definatly gets a kick from your vocal
which along with arrangmnt has as i think someone mentioned some costello/nick lowe about it.. 
do like the organ but its a little insistant, maybe take it in and out as per.. or for that extra push..
and thought the panning of the guitars was a little off somehow ..im listening in cans tonight tho so..
but great stuff mikhay

[mihkay]

Hi guys.  Firstly, Thank you very much for all the feedback. I hope I can return the favour soon.

Some of it is a matter of taste but lots of it is really useful. :-)
For the subjective bits, I thought I'd try and explain some of my thought process and choices and hopefully all of us may get some insight for the future and I definitely want to let you know of the specific things I have taken on board.

For example, the vocal intro seems to have divided opinion.
The Viscount hit it on the head, you're right dude. Elvis (not Presley) is a big influence. :-)
The song itself was created by using a third party set of lyrics. I didn't want to alter them at all so I was constrained by effectively having a four verse song with a refrain at the end of each verse. It is a very folk style, but I didn't want to write a folk song. A slow ballad would have made the song almost 6 minutes long so that was out. I settled on a under-exposed genre from the 80's as a starting point. "Cowpunk" (look it up on Wiki for an explanation.) ;-)

The solo after verse 2 or verse 3 debate.
It was purely an decision to keep things moving. I felt if I had put a third verse in before the solo it would have gone on too long before something different happened and the listeners interest would have been waning. Also with a solo leading into the quieter last verse, I felt that all the variation would have been left to the last third of the song and it would have been unbalanced. These decisions were made very early in the writing process so I didn't really experiment with the alternatives. If I was in a band and could more quickly try out variations I may have come to a different conclusion.

The mandolin style guitar bit was a bit of an afterthought.
I needed something extra in that 3rd verse to make it a bigger than the previous two. But with an already quite full sound with the two acoustic guitars, distorted electric guitar and big organ sound it had to be something melodic / rhythmic rather than harmonic. It was a spur of the moment choice and was easy to record. Possibly I could have gone with a fiddle doubling up on the vocal line or perhaps just a tambourine.
Personally apart from the clunky playing I quite like it, and a proper mandolin rather than guitar played up the neck would have helped  ;-)

Volume level drop at the Solo.
I have to agree wholeheartedly with everyone here. My first mistake was using acoustic guitar as the solo instrument. As Mc303 and Skub pointed out a decent slightly over-driven Telecaster would have been the thing to use. Only reason it's an acoustic is that my guitar technique is not great and on the electric when I'm struggling I have the tendency to bend the neck and put everything out of tune. Unfortunately using the acoustic meant having to back off the supporting instruments to allow it to stand out. You're right though. I think I may have gone too far and it's definitely unbalanced the song. It's a mistake I will not be repeating.

Mix may be a little too toppy.
This may be due to my age. I'm 50 now and as you get older your high frequency hearing does deteriorate. Also going gigs back in the 80's, before health and safety stopped your ears ringing all the way home probably hasn't helped. :-) I will have to keep an ear out for this in future and perhaps compensate with a little HF shelf cut on my Master channel if it is a issue rather than just a taste thing. More investigation required.

Sounds unbalanced in headphones.
Very probably. This is a very L-C-R mix. Distorted guitar hard one way organ hard the other. On home speakers or in the car this gives separation quite simply and as no one is ever in the stereo sweet spot I thought I'd get away with it. Damn you headphones! ;-) I didn't consider, and didn't listen to the final mix in cans. I will do in future.

Cheers everyone. You've really helped me and I hope some things in my reply have been useful in return.

Martin

[digger72]

Hi Mikhay,

Fave bit - organ/synth.
Least fave - the cymbals a little bit too bright and fizzy for me.

Liked the upbeat nature of the song. Happy sounding without being overtly so.

Digger

[Boydie]

I really liked the song - but as you have asked for production advice I will try to focus on this...


Overall the mix sounds OK with plenty of "punch"

The thing that immediately stood out to me was that the mix sounded very "left heavy" due to the power of the strummed electric guitar

I think you need something stronger in the right side to balance it out


I think a little more work is need to ensure the bass guitar and kick drum are not fighting for frequencies as it sounds like the bass is overpowering the kick, but the kick is also sucking some frequencies out of the bass - eg during the section without drums bass sounds good but notice how it diminishes when the kick comes back in

Overall the mix sounds a little "spikey" and I think some subtle compression could help tame it and allow you to bring everything a little more "up front" as the mix sounds a little "distant"

On a production / arrangement note I would keep the break at 45secs "clean" - ie the same as the intro - for me the little guitar and organ stabs through the timing off