[ianpwilliams]

I'm a very musical person, and I've written lots of pieces of music, which are pretty much songs without lyrics, over the years. So now I would like to turn them into songs. But I am no good at writing lyrics.

I tried the method of thinking about a subject, and thinking of words and phrases to do with that subject, and although I have a good vocabulary, the more imaginative words never come to mind, so whatever lyrics I do come up with are no good.

So then I wondered, would it be possible to craft lyrics. So I would find a whole load of words that I really liked, and construct lyrics using those words. And no doubt the song would end up being about something anyway, so I could then adjust those lyrics to match one of my pieces of music that matched the mood of those lyrics.

It's a much more methodical approach which I'm considering, and because I'm a very logical and methodical person, I believe that maybe I could get somewhere with it. But the question then is, where do I look for these words? I would imagine that newspapers wouldn't contain the more interesting and expressive words. So then how about books, maybe fiction? That sounds better, but it's still a bit random, just flicking to random pages. Then there's a dictionary, but the same random thing applies. For songwriting aids, I know there are rhyming dictionaries and thesauruses, but I don't think either of them apply either. So would anyone have any suggestions for a good source of words?

And does anyone think this method would work? And does anyone else actually successfully use this method?

The music and the melodies are the emphasis for me really, and to have a catchy chorus with a good vocal tune, so the lyrics don't need to be amazing. But they need to be decent.

It's incredibly frustrating and annoying having this musical talent, but not being able to do anything with it, so I really need to find a way.

[S.T.C]

Deep breath....

In my opinion ,you need a lyricist...you say the words don`t have to be amazing,but they will give your tunes an identity....and i don`t really think your up to that!!!

When you listen to your music ,don`t you get any feelings ...that in turn ..create thoughts..that in turn..produce words and phrases?...cos if that does`n`t  happen....you have no poetry in you...

Why don`t you put a piece of your work up for review , and see what ideas others have!

[Stroller2010]

I agree with that - I think you really should at least have a vague idea of the lyrical content of a song before you start to write the music so that you know what the music should sound like. You can't really have a heavy rock song with lyrics about butterflies and magic.

And when you say you can't write lyrics, what's the specific problem? I always find starting with rhyming words helps and building lines around that. And do you have any examples of your attempts to show?

[tone]

The answer is yes. You can craft lyrics. You can do what you want. There are no rules.

And I think that's the problem. Your methodical mind is putting up barriers and introducing rules.

Here's what works for me. Try to let go of the fact that you're writing "lyrics". You're just writing. Don't worry about rhyming or anything else for now. You have demonstrated in your post that you're capable of communicating clearly in writing. This is good.

Now you need to have something to say.

What makes you cry? What makes you rage? What makes you afraid? What makes you shiver?

If you can't answer these questions, you probably will find lyrics really hard. But if you can open up a little, and let some honesty out, you'll be amazed at what appears on the page when you put a pen on it.

I find reading is essential for writing. I read A LOT. Fiction & non-fiction - just anything that speaks to me. I also listen and observe. Some of the best lines come out of observing the way someone behaves, reacts, or picking up on an unusual turn of phrase.

Sometimes I practice 'free writing' where you commit yourself to 10 minutes (or more) of continuous writing. It doesn't matter if you write complete shit. You just write. Without stopping. For 10 minutes.

I've got pages of rubbish in my note book, but a lot of my songs have borrowed lines from those pages of rubbish. They're a real gift.

So relax, and just write. let yourself do it.

Or get together with a lyricist. Whatever works for you.

[The Corsair]

You can't really have a heavy rock song with lyrics about butterflies and magic.

Challenge accepted.


Writing lyrics to music is possible, but IMO it takes more skill than just writing music to lyrics. Personally, I always have a full-on arrangement playing in my head as I write my lyrics, so in a sense I'm coming up with the whole song but only writing the words down. I just commit the tune to memory.

The first thing to do if you've never written before is to write a simple verse. 4 lines, ABAB rhyme format, 4/4 timing. Go from there. If you do that for a couple of verses and try and keep the idea coherent then you'll be off to a decent start.

[S.T.C]

You can't really have a heavy rock song with lyrics about butterflies and magic.

Challenge accepted.


Writing lyrics to music is possible, but IMO it takes more skill than just writing music to lyrics. Personally, I always have a full-on arrangement playing in my head as I write my lyrics, so in a sense I'm coming up with the whole song but only writing the words down. I just commit the tune to memory.

The first thing to do if you've never written before is to write a simple verse. 4 lines, ABAB rhyme format, 4/4 timing. Go from there. If you do that for a couple of verses and try and keep the idea coherent then you'll be off to a decent start.

Yes i agree,writing lyrics to music is a challenge,because your not free ..you have to make sure it all fits the melody and that....so the story can suffer...although the BEEGEES and the like did a pretty good job..

I also agree..that a methodical mind may stifle free thought,music writing can be a mechanical mechanism sometimes...the words you put on them are all about expression ..you need a bit of poetry in you. 

[ianpwilliams]

Thanks for the replies.

To begin with I tried listening to my "songs", and tried to think of lyrics that would suit them. The songs have their own moods based on my mood at the time (happy, sad, angry, laid back etc), so I tried to think of lyrics that would suit the music. But that didn't work out.

Then I tried composing a vocal tune for the chorus of each song, as I think it's really important that a song has a catchy chorus. But then of course that restricted the lyrical side even more, because there is a vocal tune there to fit in with too.

So now I think (like tone said) that the best approach is to forget about my music completely, and try to write lyrics on their own. I do believe that I have the expressive side in me, and that I am capable of writing good lyrics, but when I try to write them, I'm always trying to write lyrics that are more than just the typical simple ones you get. I used to listen to a huge amount of Pink Floyd, and I loved Roger Waters' lyrics (even though I never liked him much, was always a big Gilmour fan). His lyrics were always so descriptive, often using interesting words, and that's something I like a lot. So that's what led me to looking at online dictionaries, thesauruses, rhyming dictionaries, and random word generators. The idea being that I would keep producing a new random word until I found one I liked, and then I would form a sentence around that, and that might inspire me to add another line to that, and so on. That would eventually leave me with lots of lines of verse, of varying moods and situations, which I could group together into songs (which would be the hard part).

As for reading, unfortunately I don't do a lot of that any more. I do listen to radio shows and podcasts though, so I suppose audiobooks could be an option.

There have been a lot of difficult times in my life, so if I wanted to use real life as inspiration, then I'm worried that all my songs would end up being very depressing or angry, like Radiohead! Haven't said that, they aren't doing too badly...

[S.T.C]

I write lyrics..but i don`t know if i`m a lyricist! i say that because i have very little experience in writing to others music....i did try once for a Russian band..they sent me 5, 1.5 min samples...i thought i did ok..they didn`t?..so i told them to forget it..

So anything i`m involved in is built up from my lyrical story...which so far has  worked quite well..i`m good at that,and it`s going to be the way my song collab`s are processed.

What your trying to do isn`t easy.i would listen too the pieces you have, and firstly come up with a title,that sets the theme and mood of each song,,therefore making it difficult to write the same song type too much.....Be careful with that axe Eugene!

[Schedule9]

you write music but have no lyrics,,,ok
forget about over thinking, rhyming, structure, grammar.
How did you feel when you made the music?
Were you thinking of something or someone?
what were you trying to say with the music?
does that help at all

[ianpwilliams]

Yeah it does a bit. Although some of the music was made a very long time ago   I think I'll try the approach of forgetting about the music for now, and try a few different methods of putting some words, phrases, lyrical ideas together. Then if I can find a method that works for me, then I can bring the music back into it and take it from there.

Thanks for the help  

By the way, I remember hearing years ago that David Bowie used to write lyrics by cutting out newspaper clips and other stuff, and putting them together. I thought both then and now that it sounded like the kind of rumour that people would enjoy spreading, but was there actually any truth to it?

[S.T.C]

Yeah it does a bit. Although some of the music was made a very long time ago   I think I'll try the approach of forgetting about the music for now, and try a few different methods of putting some words, phrases, lyrical ideas together. Then if I can find a method that works for me, then I can bring the music back into it and take it from there.

Thanks for the help  

By the way, I remember hearing years ago that David Bowie used to write lyrics by cutting out newspaper clips and other stuff, and putting them together. I thought both then and now that it sounded like the kind of rumour that people would enjoy spreading, but was there actually any truth to it?

yeah i heard this too..i think it`s true...

[tone]

yeah i heard this too..i think it`s true...

I don't know if it's true of Bowie, but I know it's true of at least two other songwriters I've read about. I think one was Thom Yorke from radiohead, only it was lines cut out of his notebook. I can't remember who the other one was.

Whatever path you take from a blank page to one filled with words isn't important - only the actual finished lyric.