The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Writing Process => Topic started by: ac298 on November 27, 2011, 06:13:22 PM
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hi, i've got a bit of a problem with my songwriting process. i've got an electric guitar i'm very attached to and its generally what i try to do all my writing on, unplugged and sitting down. It hasn't failed me in the past, even though i've only ever written one song on it that i'm truly happy with. However, as most famous songwriters i know talk about using an acoustic when writing songs, do you think playing an acoustic guitar holds a benefit over using an electric guitar when you write? Sometimes when I play an acoustic or try to write on it i notice a kind of resonance and natural melody in its tone that you don't get with an electric, and it assists the mind in thinking in more of an intrinsically melodic way, and because the sound is larger it also gives you more space underneath to play with vocal patterns. However, how does it work that kurt cobain could write some of his louder stuff on an acoustic, i mean surely to picture the final outcome in your head of songs like 'smells like teen spirit' or 'lithium you'd need to play it on electric? I hate leaving my comfort zone by putting down my electric and picking up an acoustic to try to write because I feel that every second I try to get into the 'feel' or writing on an acoustic i'm wasting invaluable writing time on my electric that could be rich with melodies. Any help on this matter would be great, thanks (sorry if its a bit long :-[!)
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i write rock songs mainly & like you i write most on a unplugged electric...a acoustic just wouldnt do it for me
the only reason i could see these rockstars writing on acoustics is if there on the road it would be the only easy way to do it & hear yourself play
however when ive run out of ideas on my electric i find picking up my casio keyboard will give me a whole load of new ideas & i write songs i could never have written on the electric & ocasionaly i do borrow an acoustic & that will give me ideas for totaly diffrent songs aswell
so id say dont get hung up about what the pros say there doing ...do what suits you.... if you pick up the acoustic & dont get anywhere switch to the electric...if thats not productive try a keyboard
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Just write on what you are comfortable. I write on a mix between an acoustic and a piano. I've also started writing songs on an electric, a bass, mandolin and hammond. Just because that was what was to hand. A lot of the time something I start on one instrument will end up being carried mostly by another instrument. Most of the time my songs end up with piano, acoustic and electric in them. Sometimes I might get to a point on the acoustic where I get stuck with where to go next, or how I want the song to flow. Then I would turn to the piano as I'm more technically proficient on that and I find it easier to look at it and see where to go...
Bottom line : whatever makes you comfortable. Just because you write the song on that, doesn't mean you have to record or perform the song on it.
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I'd add that sometimes writing on something uncomfortable can be a good thing. I find that I get "stuck" in familiar chord sequences and arpeggios on my acoustic. Plug in my flying V and suddenly everything changes, the fret board seems to open up.
Moral is; don't be afraid to experiment. Like Ramshackles says, what starts on one instrument often gets finished on another. That riff you were whistling in the shower this morning is tomorrows metal breakdown ;D
Peter
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Also welcome to the forum, and congrats on an interesting first post! Look forward to your future contributions.
Peter
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just to say though, i don't really play metal, i generally play melodic rock, but thanks for the opinions!
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It's really all up to jamming. Just experiment all over the fretboard, even try making up chords. I know one way some people can spark up new ideas is by trying different tunings (although I'm not sure how far you want to go with this), jamming on them, noticing new voicings and melodies that they couldn't create in standard tunings.
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Im not sure its about the guitar really, i think its about passion and if you have it like Cobain, you'll express it on any guitar..Jeff Buckley was another, real shame.
mind you each time ive had a new gtr or keybd or something, always gets things rolling, exploring a new beast,
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Hello!
I've only ever played the acoustic guitar so obviously it's the only thing i can write on XD. I'll commonly jam in my room with different chord progressions until something makes my head tick. Also I'll often keep a pen and paper beside me in case when I'm jamming, lyrics or ideas just pop into my head (sometimes when I'm playing I'll also think up of a vocal melody and hum it while I play)
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I did have a couple of vouchered lessons in London (http://www.groupon.co.uk/vouchers/london) when I went to visit my brother. The tutor taught me a few neat tricks about structuring songs which I never knew, which I sort of have in the back of my mind when I jam, but it's really down to feel and instinct. Sometimes I'll get a good riff going, record it, expecting it to follow one structure but then it turns out completely different to what I expected.
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Using an acoustic is great for experimenting with different strumming patterns, plus if you can get a song sounding great with just an acoustic, it'll sound great whatever you play it on.
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Using an acoustic is great for experimenting with different strumming patterns, plus if you can get a song sounding great with just an acoustic, it'll sound great whatever you play it on.
That's very true. It's easier to make your melodies into even bigger songs if you start at the barebones. Would be harder the other way round going from full orchestral down to acoustic XD
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That's very true. It's easier to make your melodies into even bigger songs if you start at the barebones. Would be harder the other way round going from full orchestral down to acoustic XD
It can be interesting though when you take songs that weren't written on acoustic, to an acoustic, and they take on a different sound and identity. It's boring though when people just play what they play on the electric, on the acoustic.
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Like others have said, use what you like until you get into a rut, then switch to something less familiar.
If my writing's based on progressions, generally I'll tackle it with an accoustic guitar maybe with occasional trips to one of my keyboards. If I'm writing based on a melody I can't get out of my head, it's the keyboard that helps me figure things out.
Sometimes the instrument itself is the muse. Hearing that odd harmony, or even the difficulty in playing can spark an idea and stretch the creativity muscles.
Cho
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These days I write most stuff. In the car singing riffs and chord progressions and melodies into my phone. An acoustic phone that is ;D
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An acoustic phone that is ;D
Brilliant! Where can I get one?
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The point of not using an electric is so you don't get distracted by playing with a high gain sound. Just a little noodling and pick scrapes before writing, we've all been there.
So your writing on an unplugged electric is the same idea.
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I find it easier to work with an acoustic because it's easier to match the volume of my voice and the guitar.
Most of Nirvana's post-Bleach work sounds fine on acoustic anyway, teen spirit included.
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I'd probably say it's best to write on whatever you are comfortable in using. An accoustic for writing is great but it all depends on
what you are writing. These days it's all been done so the trick is to present your song in a different way. So now it's all about syncopation and harmony.
It's much better to work high up on the fretboard, finding your triads and working from there, rather than at the top of the neck playing the tired
and worn out C G Am F chords in the normal manner. Unless you are writing "another" accoustic only song.
Different instruments take up different layers. If you wrote a piece on a piano you could easily work out the Viola, chello, violin, brass parts because they all take up
a different space. The viola's would be pretty high up the scale whilst other instruments take up lower parts. Stick those bog standard shapes in on the guitar and often they won't work.
I guess it also depends on what type of music you write too. I would think if you are intending to write a thrash metal song then you will want to hear all that reverb and
distortion and so on to better help you feel in the right mood for writing that kind of song.
Personally I choose whichever instrument I think will better help me write the kind of song I intend to write. If I don't know what I intend to write then I usually play on all of them
until I find somthing I like :)
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i mean surely to picture the final outcome in your head of songs like 'smells like teen spirit' or 'lithium you'd need to play it on electric?
Nope... you don't need to play it on anything at all. At the risk of a huge simplification, we could say we are looking at two apsects of writing: "stumbling upon" and "imagining". (The reality is generally a mixture of the two... stumbling towards the realisation of something imagined, and/or imagining the development of something stumbled upon.)
We can all picture things in our head that we can't play... for instance, Kurt Cobain surely didn't simultaneously sing, play guitar, drums and bass, while picturing the final outcome of Smells Like Teen Spirit! (Perhaps he died trying :o !)
So my advice would be to practice writing away from an instrument (always go hands-free if you're using one of those acoustic phones in the car!). If an instrument is just being used as a reference point, e.g. to check that you're really writing down the harmony you think you are, then the sound (tone) of the instrument isn't so important. For stumbling, use an instrument with a sound that inspires you.
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I agree with people that doing what's comfortable. But get notation software! It helps to hear all the elements together at the same.
My personal favorite is Guitar Pro; there's also Tux Guitar and TabIT or Band-in-a-box.
The free trials will help you decide which is best, should you choose one
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you gotta go with the flow bro. whatever works for you.
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Keith Richards said all the Stones numbers start out as acoustic guitar workouts - take a listen to Brown Sugar for example, you can hear the acoustic thrashing its stuff in the background, probably the guide track? So there you have it, one of the biggest electric rock bands in history are acoustic based! ;)
On a more philosophical note: the electric guitar is a product of the 20th century, it is a separate instrument in its own right; probably the most flexible instrument for the budding songwriter is the piano though, that is a marvellous musical instrument to compose on :)
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also, I find that if you write something on one instrument eg the acoustic and then switch to play it on the piano or something else then you often get something new out of it. I also like writing a melody to some chords and then changing the chords and keeping the same melody and seeing what comes of it. I find it helps me avoid doing the obvious too often. ;)
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I always make up my stuff on acoustic first - I find the electric is rubbish for helping with melody - but that's just me and everyone will be different.
I don't play piano, but 5minutes of my messing and it's a whole new world of little ideas that are very different to those I'd have come up with on the acoustic so as above - there's no right instrument and massively depends on what music you are trying to write too.
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Music then lyrics always works for us. I have written countless lyrics that never ended up as songs.