The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Bar => Topic started by: Johnnyuk on April 19, 2018, 10:02:27 PM
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My least successful demo was one I did in a mates studio, he said I can anything and play anything I wanted, so I was like a kid in a sweetshop.
I recorded Larry Carlton's It was only yesterday, made a good fist of the guitar and ePiano parts, put some light drums on.
I played it to my Mum, this is what she said.
"Who is that knocking the drum kit over in the background?"
cpm
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Definitely this. But, oddly, somehow... it works.
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Thanks, Johnny!
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Hi everyone!
I've just had an idea!
We have a song of the month competition for the best song so how about a contest for the worst song of the month????
Then once the winner is announced we can then all explain why we voted it the worst song this month and give reasons why etc..
I think it would be a lot of fun!
Yes of course it would be very encouraging for somebody who has just started songwriting to submit a song and then be subjected to the humiliation of worst song of the month only for some songwriting / producer genius to ride out of the sunset throwing songwriting tips on the floor for the sad uneducated souls who should know about lot better. No smileys or lols on this post
Johnny :)
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This is what I should have posted...
Yes of course it would be very encouraging for somebody who has just started songwriting to submit a song and then be subjected to the humiliation of worst song of the month only for some songwriting / producer genius to ride out of the sunset throwing songwriting tips on the floor for the sad uneducated souls who should know about lot better. No smileys or lols on this post
Pompeyjazz
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So what you are saying is that you would rather continue with the back patting clique praising farce of a song of the month contest that we have right now where a random individual (one of your mates) decides which songs are to be selected and after a mere 9 votes the winner is announced? That contest is a place where we actually learn nothing at all other than who's best mates with who in here. imo.
Johnny
That’s a pretty awful thing to say, Johnny.
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Johnny, a worst song of the month competition is a silly idea in my opinion. Despite your 'kids' example I don't think that it would really benefit anyone to have their song 'honoured' in this way.
The SOTM is not cliquey. The 'random individual' who hosts the competition volunteers to do so. Volunteers are thin on the ground so it usually falls to the same bunch of members. Anybody can volunteer to host the SOTM and anybody can vote.
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The point I was trying to make was that would anybody, especially a relatively new songwriter wish to receive such an accolade? It's hardly going to boost their confidence is it.
That's the only point I was trying to make. I wasn't intending to be shitty etc etc..
That's my point of view anyway and I'm not going to comment any further on this thread
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Johnny, the part I quoted was your thoughts on our current SOTM and was the only part I was addressing.
I think most of us know that the SOTM concept, format and realisation is a flawed one...which is why we’re always trying to refine it.
It’s just something to add a little bit of excitement and fun to the forum. I was proud to have won last month. I voted for Jambrains because his was a really great song. And because he’s my mate. Come to think of it, everyone here is my mate...unless you are advertising the latest Nike trainers or cheap jewellery :)
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....Yes it is distorted to oblivion and could easily cause listeners to have epileptic fits and die from a first listen but underneath all of the distortion...
I think a comment like this may have riled Pompey. I'm not sure how PopTodd took the criticism but, to me, it's was a terribly back handed way to say 'it works'. 'Die from first listen' seems a bit harsh even though I know you didn't mean to sound so harsh. And that is where the problem lies for me - a worst song of the month competition would open up the can of worms of how you explain to someone their song won worst song of the month. Not everyone would be as sensitive as others.
It would have to be an opt in competition because not everyone would want their song in the hat. If you think it will work then certainly open up a thread for it but it is not the competition for me. I get the idea that it would be a great opportunity to hear some honest critique but that opportunity already exists when the song is submitted for feedback.
I have run song of month in the past and spent hours listening to all entries and then short listing. At no point did I choose a song based on anything other than the songs merit and yet I did end up with a short list of forum regulars, so I do understand how that could look clique.
I am an amateur song writer with a LOT of other commitments. I appreciate the feedback I get in the finished and unfinished song sections, as well as the excellent songwriting and producing tips I get from other areas of the site. It is enough for me and gives me plenty to work on; I really don't want to be told that my baby is the worst looking.
And to steer this thread back on course he's an old one of mine. Is it my worst? Nope but they didn't make it to soundcloud....it's pretty bad though :P
https://soundcloud.com/user-41129754/fairytales
All the best
Darren
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If you look at my original post i describe my own song as a get ready for your ears to bleed etc
It is clearly a very bad audio recording which tbh we all have made bad audio recordings.
You're right!! I wanted to blow my brains out about 2 seconds in...and that was before the vocal :o
Joking aside, I don't think your song is that bad at all. Nice bit of funk in there! I don't understand what is causing the crackle as everything else (other than the crackle) sounds very well produced. It's very pop but then it's supposed to be and it does it very well. So, other than the crackle, well mixed, produced and written.
I know your response was not an attack but that just further proves my point. Telling someone all the flaws in their song via the award of worst song of the month is, to me, humiliating and destroying. Also, the idea of the more experienced showcasing their worst songs in a thread with the words 'biggest pile of audio shite' in the title so that 'newbies' can take encouragement, is a little elitist.
All the best
Darren
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Hey Johnny
I understand your idea and what you would like it to achieve but I just don't think it would work that way. Essentially you would have to pick fault and you would have to then decide which song is most at fault and then explain why! Then the writer will be inundated with areas for improvement and it would be very demoralising, in my opinion. My suggestion is to start a new thread and hash out the details of your competition idea. For me, it would have to be opt in and then I think you'll run into the problems with sign up. You also need someone to run the comp every month and, if you do get lots of applicants, they will have the job of short listing the worst. I just don't think it would work (certainly not without causing some frictions along the way, and whose got time for that?)...but I ain't saying you can't do it! Go for it if you feel it will be beneficial.
Thanks
Darren
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Calling the few enthusiastic members of this forum who keep things going a clique is to miss the point..HUGE!!! :) you need to be criticizing the few thousand members of the forum who choose not to get involved..not even in voting :)
it's not the few enthusiastic members fault that they are alone in the workings of the forum... :) and thus are called a clique when actually they are just the peeps keeping things alive :)
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@Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771)
Please let me very clear - this forum has run quite happily for many years without someone turning up and trying to change things before they even get to know the forum and the wonderful members here
This is NOT a songwriting school - this is simply a place to share songs, give feedback and discuss songwriting with peers
You clearly do not realise that your comments can come across as a bit condescending (and I appreciate that the written word can be misunderstood) so this is some direct feedback I think you need to consider
There will NEVER be a vote for the worst song of the month - this may have worked in a controlled school/teaching environment but it is definitely never going to happen on my forum
I am personally not a fan of "competitive songwriting" but the competitions are more about fun, collaborating and yes - a bit of back slapping
Those who stick around tend to "get it" and realise that most are after constructive feedback and some encouragement
We can all be ultra critical - but (and I tend to need to keep repeating this to you) a critique is just one person's opinion
I would give a very different review to someone saying they are pitching commercially as I would to someone who has written a song just for the art of it - You seem unable to separate the 2
You also seem to have difficulty not being "the teacher" and "font of all knowledge" so a "peer to peer" forum may not be the best outlet for you
If a new member continually rubs other people up the wrong way it does not mean there is a "clique" as (in my vast experience of the forum) anyone can join the clique, which means it is not a clique but an open group of like minded individuals
You may just need to reconsider how you approach a peer to peer forum - or decide whether you need to have your own blog, forum, website where you can share your knowledge as "the teacher"
The problem is you can't do both at the same time - you can't be "the teacher" one minute and in the class the next
It is a recipe for disaster and constant "fall outs" - that I neither have the time nor energy to keep resolving
I personally agree with many of the things you have said about songwriting - but your perceived insistence on trying to "teach" people can come across as condescending- which is then not helped by criticising the running of the forum
Please consider how your posts will be perceived or whether this forum is the right outlet for you
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Hi Johnny,
Perhaps a good way forward would be to approach a new songwriter with an offer of production for one of their songs and subsequent notes on how the production was approached/achieved. (They may or may not accept this offer as it is great fun learning to write and record and overcoming obstacles along the way). Ithink that most new songwriters would recognise this as a genuine offer of help and would be receptive to suggestions that would improve their writing and approach to production/. It can be time consuming but very helpful. It's also a great way to establish forum relationships. That kind of help is in my opinion priceless.
Wicked Deeds
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I will gladly put up all of my songs as the worst song for every month for the rest of time if it means that everyone else's work is spared this.
cpm