[Addicted]

Just shows you how important the vocal melody is to pop songs. After all, there are only twelve notes in the musical scale.

[AGBailey]

Well that does it, I'm now going to have to learn the golden 4rth chord.
My guitar seems to be stuck on three, but it does have a selection of keys c and g 

[andy5544]

I think maybe all you chaps think too much , for me (speaking as a simpleton  )  i hear a song,i like it or dont like it , who gives a f**k what chords are used ? i'm more into listening to a song as a whole thing rather than picking it apart.
i feel like a bit of a fake musician on here , i don't know what you're all talking about most of the time. god knows how i ever manage to turn out a tune 












8

[man of simple pleasures]

I think maybe all you chaps think too much , for me (speaking as a simpleton  )  i hear a song,i like it or dont like it , who gives a f**k what chords are used ? i'm more into listening to a song as a whole thing rather than picking it apart.
i feel like a bit of a fake musician on here , i don't know what you're all talking about most of the time. god knows how i ever manage to turn out a tune 

i'm with you mate!

[Schavuitje]

That's where I said I agree and dissagree.
I'm like you in one way, I don't know a lot of the sh*t people talk about when it comes to music theory. I couldn't actually name you
quite a jumber of the chords I use in my songs. Wouldn't have a clue. 
I just know that playing and hearing those four chords that I leanred about
32 years ago, in that manner has become very tired and boring. I got bored of doing that about 31 years ago and had already moved on 
And when SOOOO many people don't move on and just repeat the past, that gets boring too. Well to me it does   

[Boydie]

That is kinda the point - if it sounds good then that is all that matters

One of the points I was making was that for it to sound "good" it is likely to be sticking to western music theory conventions - of which there aren't that many so it is only natural the same chord sequences get recycled


SCHAV has also hit on another point - which I am using as an example, I am not criticising in any way

By playing chords in different positions, and with open strings etc., if they sound "good" the chances are they are just exotic versions of the same ole chords

I wrote a song ( which I am yet to post) that used all sorts of exotic and weird chords using fretted and open strings all over the guitar

It sounded so original and unique I thought I had found some new chords!

However, when I studied the intervals and applied music theory I found I was playing a "3 chord trick"

The point being you are absolutely right - you can over analyse these things and you do need to develop a talent for using all of the elements available to make your music different, but not too different

I think "original" is probably the wrong word here

Anyway - thst is the great thing about this forum as there are lots of ears around to ensure we are all going in the right direction

[Kafla]

All this talk amazes me in a way, I mean this with the upmost kindness

I have various instruments in my house , the majority I can't really play

I just mess around and wait for something to strike an emotional reaction

I don't really concern myself with what the chords are , if it hits me I guess it will hit someone else and away I go

I cannot understand why any musican would have a prejudice against any sequence , surley writing comes from the  subconscious , I think the minute you are aware of what you are doing then you are dining at the wrong table

As I say I mean this respectfully to everyone

[Boydie]

wait for something to strike an emotional reaction

That is the destination - it doesn't matter how you get there or what tools you use - as long as you get there!

[Schavuitje]

And we go around in a circle hahaha

The trouble is Kaf mate, because you or I should say I  hear certain chord sequences used over and over again in a simillar manner
without much variation, those chord sequences - used in that conventional way - no longer inspire me or give that spark.
It's only when, like Boydie says, that chord sequence (even though it may be the same one) isn't really recognisable because of the timing, sycopation,
harmony, chord shaping, all kinds of things and tricks and more, that it makes me interested.
He explains it much better than I do hahaha
A vocal that is really creative is also something that really catches me, I've noticed.
So yeah, it has to spark inside but I guess it takes something a lot more interesting to light my spark. God it's like therapy this 
We should charge outsiders to come in here for this 

[Kafla]

And we go around in a circle hahaha

The trouble is Kaf mate, because you or I should say I   hear certain chord sequences used over and over again in a simillar manner
without much variation, those chord sequences - used in that conventional way - no longer inspire me or give that spark.
It's only when, like Boydie says, that chord sequence (even though it may be the same one) isn't really recognisable because of the timing, sycopation,
harmony, chord shaping, all kinds of things and tricks and more, that it makes me interested.
He explains it much better than I do hahaha
A vocal that is really creative is also something that really catches me, I've noticed.
So yeah, it has to spark inside but I guess it takes something a lot more interesting to light my spark. God it's like therapy this  
We should charge outsiders to come in here for this  

We'd be millionaires Schavu

I have thought about this a lot, seriously  

I don't really undertsand anything about music theory , when people mention the i vi etc chords or even sycopation - I have no idea what this means

I just play mainly my guitar , half the time it's not even proper chords -  I like shapes and the sounds they make - when I go to program bass on the back of these shapes and I find it's C G Am F it always makes me chuckle

And yet I think my songs have a few twists and turns - I very rarely use the same chords all fhe way through a section

My firm belief is that melody is king and as you know you can devlop a pretty strong medlody holding on any chord

I understand your point about the same chords - sometimes I think I will never write another song again - I can't learn any more chords - there are only really a few options - and then it happens

Anyway I am just rambling now  

[James Nighthawk]

I don't really undertsand anything about music theory , when people mention the i vi etc chords or even sycopation - I have no idea what this means

I just play mainly my guitar , half the time it's not even proper chords -  I like shapes and the sounds they make - when I go to program bass on the back of these shapes and I find it's C G Am F it always makes me chuckle

Well here is a flip side of this friendly little discussion for you

Personally I get a little irritated by people that are completely against Chord and Music Theory, as if those that understand it are cheating or not writing "from the soul". (And NO, I am not accusing you of this Kaf )

I am an odd one. I learnt Chord theory including Jazz chord subs and I use it all the time. It really, really helps me when working with artists in the studio as I can help arrange songs that I only know the first chord and the Key. But I struggle to read standard notation, as many guitarists do.

I write songs by ear, but because I understand the theory underneath I can sometimes try new chord ideas that I otherwise wouldn't have employed. I have been using minor-7-flat-5ths recently, augmented chords and some other cool sounds. These are not easily "stumbled" upon because they can sound wrong in isolation and only resolve to certain other colourations, and they are even less easily dropped into a song you don't understand the theory behind. This is why so many songs written use the obvious chords. They are easier to employ and nearly everyone with basic chord knowledge can throw them together

Kaf you make a good point about writing "blindly". I have done this and then realised I have just found an inverted way of using I, IV, and V (C, F and G for instance). This is brilliant too of course.

All I am saying is that learning some chord theory can increase the palette open to you. And before people say that this is snobbery and before people say that "pop" music doesn't use these chords, I will direct you to your trusty edition of "The Beatles complete songbook" (ALL songwriters must own a copy, surely??? ). Love me do may have three chords, but by "Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane" those bitches KNEW their chord theory.

Just saying

[Kafla]

Another side track 

When I learned the guitar I bought the complete Beatles song chord book and learned nearly every song - I can still play many to this day without reference almost 20 years later

I 'borrow' from these songs enormously in my writing 

[The Corsair]

When I write on the bass I write with the mindset of 'I want to write a bassline that drives the song in some way and actually adds to the melody, rather than just following the guitar the whole time'. I actually couldn't care less about theory when it comes to my instrument...

Which does bring me to an interesting side-note. I've noticed that it is very obvious when the guitarist wrote the melody and when I wrote it. His are more 'guitar and bass do the same thing, electronics do other stuff' whereas mine are 'bass and guitar work together, but aren't doing the same thing, electronics follow the guitar'

[Boydie]

@ JAMES

I couldn't agree more with your last post - in fact it could have been me that wrote it!!!

I learnt guitar from the age of about 12 - 16 (doing little else during this time!)

At the age of 17 I decided to take things a bit more seriously so I decided to do the (then new) electric guitar grades

I had to learn all of the chord theory, scales, modes etc. etc. and I achieved Grade 8 with honours when I was 18

I then taught guitar for a few years and constantly going over "the basisc" with students really hammered it home for me

I still write "from the soul" and with my ears - then I work out what I have come up with so that I can look at chord substitutions, embellishments etc. and understand what is going on to fit in other parts/arrangements

I can just about read notation but nowhere near as profficiently as I would like to

I have been toying with writing a simple "Music Theory For Songwriters" book/article to go through chords, harmony, key signatures, time signatures etc.

Just one thing on a long list of things I would like to do but have no time for!

[flossie]

I am sort of the reverse to some of you.  I learned music theory, notation etc and did A level Music.  Yet, when I play chords, unless they are pretty standard often I don't know what I have played, so I sometimes go to a site tap in the notes and it tells me  Basically I can read music but don't know much theoretically about chords!!!