[James Nighthawk]

@Menimx Thanks kindly for taking the time to listen and your kind words 

@Schav, yup yup. Although Beck is an Odd one. Sea Change, Mutations and Odelay are fantastic. Midnight Vultures (I think that is what it is called) is odd yet fascinating cyber funk. He does have some tripe in his catalogue though. And Elbow are good but only seem to have one vibe. Works for them though!

[domj]

Hah! A real folksy psych feel. Really well done. Maybe the snare is a bit too sharp sounding in the mix but really enjoyable listening.
All the songs i've listened to so far here are feel good songs... and the sun is shining... anymore and i might start breaking out into song like a musical or something!
Hmm... maybe not.

[Boydie]

I enjoyed this one a lot

I really like the vocal delivery and the production on the vocals

The guitar sound is really nice but I found it quite distracting having it panned so far left

Perhaps a stereo spread on the guitar would help for the early parts of the song and then place it in the mix when everything else kicks in

When everything else kicked in I also found the mix a bit "left heavy"

Apart from that everything else was spot on and the production was exceptionally "crisp", which I thought was excellent

I agree with andy's comments about the military drum but understand why you put it in - perhaps a compromise with some automation and panning to change the "dynamic" of the military drum to give different emphasis

I also really liked the contrast between verse/chorus and again when everything else kicked in

Not my cup of tea genre wise but a great example nevertheless

Great job

[James Nighthawk]

@domj many thanks!

@Boydie Also thanks, and, lo!, the panning topic. A great discussion point in general!

Apologies for length, and this is production talk not songwritery stuff 

I am often torn when it comes to panning. As a producer for hire I have to understand and largely follow panning conventions. Modern headphone-use proliferation combined with a fear of upsetting the status quo has made hard panning a near faux-par with many genres. Furthermore, louder and louder mastering standards (google search "the loudness race" for more info) negates heavy panning for main instruments in most cases. Double tracking notwithstanding.

Most of my favourite albums are 60s or 70s productions when stereo was finding its feet (esp the 60s ones). And don't get me wrong - The mid period Beatles albums on Headphones, even post remaster can be nigh-on uncomfortable with the hard panning (Bass on one speaker, full pan!? This is NOT comfy on a modern pair of in-ear monitors!!). But I DO like well panned tracks. It can and is used well by modern productions, and can be a joy on good headphones 

As such, I try to find a middle ground, where the conventions are (mostly) met but some panning in interesting ways can still be employed

In this song: (hard but not FULL panned)
VERSE - L Acc Gtr, M Vox (with a ghost copy slight delayed and soft panned) and R Snare.
ENDING: L Acc Gtr, M Vox, R Elex guitar rhythm, DRUMS stereo, BACKING VOX stereo.
Bass centred throughout.

As such there is balance, or at least I think so. Problem is that no two sets of ears are the same. As such what is comfy for me might feel unbalanced to others. For me the snare and the guitar occupy similar frequencies, so balance each other out.

This is perhaps part of why hard panning is slightly out of favour. Keeping things less panned is perhaps less of a risk?

But I do think that is should remain a creative tool for producers.

Any thoughts on the subject gratefully received... this is an important matter to me 

 

 

[Boydie]

I am really going to enjoy discussing things with you 

All of my comments are based on me spending the last year or so trying to learn how to do things "right" (note the inverted commas as what is actually right will be a discussion for another day I am sure)

I didn't realise at the time you were a working producer

I am struggling myself with panning (and mixing!)

I am trying to stick to the rules but I agree that this will end up with a bland mix

Although I agree the freq of the snare provides balance I found the sparseness of the right channel a bit distracting

Perhaps I need to experiment a bit more but I am a believer in learning the rules before intentionally breaking them, as you have obviously done

I will give the track another listen later tonight and post any further thoughts...

[Songsmith]

Hi James,

definitely the best thing you have posted so far for me, nice atmosphere & good ending, thumbs up from me

[Boydie]

I will give the track another listen later tonight and post any further thoughts...

I managed to have another listen on speakers and the mix sounds great - the guitar has a chance to fill the soundscape a bit more on speakers (even my crappy laptop speakers!)

I still find it a bit tricky to listen to on my headphones

Interestingly I found that the tambourine balanced things more when it is present


I have ordered a VRM Box to help me with my "headphone only" mixing so I am quite looking forward to listenting to your track with this engaged to see if it really does do a half decent job of emulating the speaker listening experience


I have to say that on a second listen the part where everything kicks in at the end sounds even better!

[Boydie]

Hi James

I have just had a bit of a revelation with my new kit!

Just had a listen with my new KRK headphones combined with the Foxusrite VRM Box

The balance is MUCH better to me with the VRM engaged, which is testament to your mixing as well as my new kit

Listening with "monitoring headphones" I still find the stereo separation severe (although not wrong or unpleasant) but with the VRM speaker emulation (and presumably through real speakers) the mix suddenly comes together

This is demonstrated more on one of your other tracks (FTW) - which I absolutely love by the way!

Through headphones the guitar sounds max left and the tambourine max right

As soon as I enable the VRM everything seems to gel together, whilst maintaining the stereo separation

That is very skillful mixing and has opened up a whole new world and approach for me

[James Nighthawk]

@Boydie

Firstly thanks for the repeat listenings, and I am glad to have provided a touchstone to help you sort your monitoring.

Headphone monitoring can be a bitch.

I am however a tad confused...

Please note the below is stated with all due respect and caution, as I may have completely misread your set-up...


Headphone monitoring should be for studio use. Listening to completed music is often better suited to hi-fi set-ups. I would never dream of bringing the old Beyer DT100s or (my preferred) DT150s out of the studio. For tracking they are superb. Clear, decent spill reduction etc... but for listening they are cold and harsh!

I mix for consumption, as one should. As such mixes are done on monitors, with reference hi-fi mixes one switch away, both headphone and speaker. Mixes are final-checked in the car, iPhone, and through a variety of home headphones (Bose overear and my favourite Shure SE series, high end and entrance level). And through a bunch of friends on their chosen setups too.

As such, trying to emulate speakers on headphone is an odd one, and considering spacial awareness perception and psychoacoustics, largely only an emulation is possible?

Perhaps a really decent set of home headphones would be a better route?

UPDATE WHILE WRITING:

I found this

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr11/articles/focusrite-vrmbox.htm

And now have a greater understanding of what you are doing

This module looks like a good idea for your own mixing if you cannot ever check on speakers.
But I stick to my guns. For final "Consumption" of your own work, and general day to day listening, consumer speakers and different consumer headphones are they way to go. If for no other reason than 99.9% of the market uses these; as such you need to hear what everyone else is hearing when they hit the big play button

I hope this makes some sense

Thanks again, and glad to hear you have heard my songs "properly" now

[Boydie]

Cheers James

I 100% agree with what you have said above

I think you have slightly misunderstood me, although I wasn't 100% clear! 

To clarify...

I originally listened to your song on my DT770 Pro headphones and found the mix "left heavy"

I did not realise that you worked as a producer so pointed out the panning in my comments in case it was a "beginner" that wanted feedback on the mix

For my own monitoring purposes I had ordered the KRK Headphones and VRM Box (more on this later...)

After your comments I thought I would re-listen - and on my DT770s I still found the mix left heavy, which is why I did not post back that night

I then listened to the mix on speakers and "got it" (my Eureka moment) - the sounds seemed to blend together in front of me whilst keeping the stereo separation

By pure coincidence this reinforced my own forming suspicion that by using headphones only for monitoring my own mixes would suffer

This is clearly true as I would never have dared be so bold with the mixing approach you used!

When my new KRK headphones and VRM Box arrived yesterday I thought your songs would be the perfect test for my new set-up

With the KRK headphones only the experience was similar to the DT770 Pros (although sounded even better to me ears!)

When I engaged the VRM Box the experience was much more like listening through speakers, where the mix did not sound “left heavy” at all but much more integrated whilst maintaining the stereo separation

I was also able to re-listen using the different virtual set-ups, which all reacted in a surprisingly natural way

This proves to me the VRM Box is doing a half decent job of replicating the experience of listening to speakers with headphones on, which is perfect for my situation where speaker monitoring is not possible

I also completely agree with what your saying about testing mixes on a number of systems and not relying on the VRM Box – I do have access to a studio so I can tweak my mixes etc. (as well as get feedback from you on here )

I have really enjoyed listening to your songs (over and over ) and I will have done wonders for your track counts!

[stephaniedema]

Nice song, James! I esp. liked the drums. Plain and simple, but very effective.
And great dynamics in the song. And in the singing melodies, the two different "voices", very enjoyable.
What strings do you use on your acoustic? They sound nice and bright 

Greetings
SD

[Ramshackles]

It's pretty dark, but I wouldnt say the melody is totally oddball. I like the change from the verse to chorus, but I dont think the chorus quite lives up to that change.
Really interesting arrangement, although the drums annoy me a bit after a while! It would be cool to see it grow a bit more. Bass/harmonies in the chorus...although when it comes to life toward the end it's pretty cool.

[jim morrison]

very good james, a well composed tune ,love that riff you've got there

[postmn]

Noice, its got a great 60's,70's feel to it, reaally loved this, keep em comin

[James Nighthawk]

Thanks for all the lovely comments 

@ stephaniedema
I string My Martin MX-1 with D'Addario EJ26 Phosphor Bronze Custom Light (.011-.052) Acoustic Guitar Strings

They are by far my fav. The stay bright for a good few months too, and they aren't too pricey either