The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: redrhodie on December 06, 2017, 05:09:41 PM
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I wrote this one about a neglected girl growing up in an alcoholic household.
Thanks for listening and any comments. Thanks to Keith for everything, especially the help with the lyrics. I feel much better about this now.
Lynn
Listen to Headlights On The Ceiling by faraway my lovely #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/user-468459034/headlights-on-the-ceiling
Headlights on the Ceiling
It was summer
She lay awake in the middle of the night
Waiting for his headlights on the ceiling
She knew her father
Would be sleeping it off by now
If he was quiet he could slip in through the side door
And in the morning he was gone
And she just lay there all alone
In the morning he was gone
And she just lay there all alone
In the winter
She was falling through the cracks
Waiting for the other shoe to fall
She watched her father
Drinkin' away the days
Waiting for a prince to come and save her
And in the morning she stayed home
Waiting all alone
In the morning she stayed home
Waiting all alone
The next summer
She was picking up the pieces
Trying to make sense of it all
There was no other
Who could put it back together
It was up to her to take care of herself
And in the morning she was gone
Before anybody knew she left home
In the morning she was gone
Before anybody knew she left home x2
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You have a good writing style, a good vocal sound and a good song..but, to show these talents off better you gotta tighten the production..lot of timing issues in the track :)
bit more variation in arrangement would be good also :)
the chorus sounds the same as the rest of the song..not melodically but instrumentally :)
bit of a change there would improve the effect of the chorus.. :)
dunno what DAW you use but it's not difficult to tighten things up in there...
A good song needs a good showcase, you have the former, now work on the latter and your songs will shine, they deserve this...because it's good stuff,
best, Kevin :)
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I like this. But there's something i can tell you for free .If you were to pitch this ,or get a critique , they would like to see 'headlights on the ceiling used in the chorus , after all it is your chosen title and the most interesting phrase of the song .
So:What about this, having to do it quick cos i'm at work...
'And in the morning he was gone
So, she just lay there all alone
And in the evening before the moon
she saw ,headlights on the ceiling
and knew he was nearly home'
Also from .58 -1.37 ,the songs just treading water , and it does it again later on...you need to sort that out..and bring the timeline in..it goes from summer to winter and then to next summer...waiting for headlights on the ceiling suggests a more common event, not one thats seasonal ,over wise you may as well use the harvest or something? ;)
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This would benefit from a little less reverb on the guitar that is panned left. At the moment it is detracting from the main vocal. The guitar track is interesting in itself but I think it could be mixed to allow the vocal and guitar to coexist and make for a fine song. Lovely vocals!
Paul
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Lovely sleepy Velvets feel to this.
For me, the looseness works well, I wouldn't tighten it up... it's got that slacker cool to it.
Vocals sound brill and I liked the plaintive 'whale noise' guitar licks too.
Interesting title too, you can't help but wonder what it's going to be about.
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This song has a lot of potential. You have a knack for melody and lyrics. I also appreciate the melody of the guitar solos. I think I agree with the others where you could benefit from better production, but the base is definitely there.
I do like the reverby quality of it, but again things need to be cleaned up.
I hope you continue to work on this one!
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Lady I really like the lazy way this drifts along in a post Velvets haze, It sounds truly analogue and makes no concession to what's current or proven.
Good title. I also think having a title that repeats ad nauseum in the chorus is equivalent to dumbing down a song to some moronic level. So plus marks for avoiding such a thing.
I get the impression you write for enjoyment , like me, and dont study the form hoping to back a winner. Your song is the sort of stuff that keeps music alive.
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I liked this one Lynn
What a great innocent sounding vocal.
Bit of the cowboy junkies there for me.
You've had some great advice above on how to tighten this up.
I don't mean timing wise but production wise :)
Enjoyed it muchly!
Paul
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When I first got this song from Lynn I was blown away, it was brilliant. We had a discussion about what the song was about, some of the lyrics had to change before the world could hear her song.
The song, for me, is about dealing with adversity and disappointment. Its about independence and relying on yourself to solve your problems. Its also about dreams or more accurately daydreams, hence the title headlights on the ceiling. I always associate headlights on the ceiling as being in bed, in that golden time between being awake and falling asleep thinking about tomorrow.
The dream was for her Prince to come and save her, which, of course he didn't.
The tiny amount of reverb on the guitar reflects that lazy, easy feeling as you fall asleep and a longing for a better life. It doesn't get in the way of the vocal for me but I've heard it dozens of times.
What happened to Autumn and Spring? Basically it is the choice facing her, Summer/winter, hot/cold, yes/no, heaven/hell, stay or go. No room for the compromise that is Spring and Autumn. Adding lyrics for Autumn and Spring would get in the way of the story for no real gain. Removing the contrast between Summer and Winter would take away the stark choice facing her, stay or go.
I like the comment about treading water because that was what she was doing, treading water, trying to make a decision about her future. Even when she has made the decision and left home there is still a doubt over whether it is the correct decision.
The drum is on the beat and relentless, it reflects time and life. There is no escape. If the rest of the song was tightened up it would sound like she always knew what she was doing to do. That leaving was inevitable. Which of course it wasn't. Life is messy. Tightening up the production would change the meaning as well as the mood of the song.
The title doesn't have to be in the chorus, or even in the song. How many people criticise Neil Young, Bob Dylan or Joni Mitchell for not having the song title in the chorus? If Lynn wanted a "hit" she has plenty of songs with the title in the chorus which are more commercial. Although none of them are quite as good as this, at least for me.
Lynn will have her own views on the meaning of the song and the production, but these are the reasons I mixed it like this.
Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated,
Keith
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Lovely moody little number. Production could be better but I feel everyone is making too much a deal about that. This is better than 90% of the stuff on here.
Very atmospheric very suzanne Vega style. Nice vocal, very innocent sounding. Really nice writing I think.
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It's funny how people get defensive about Feedback when it's not what they want to hear.This has happened to me i must confess.
Remember ,a song can always be re-done. Esp these days with DAW etc. I think the reason this track ,(though it's been presented as finished) is getting 'advice': is because it is liked
I didn't comment on the production, i commented on the structure. I don't think this should be overproduced if it means losing that watery, drifting quality, but it's letting itself down the way it is.
Keith ,this is not 'hit; material in a chart sense , but i could see someone like First Aid Kit doing it?
The title needs to be in this song more than once....fact. It's a basic songwriting principle....nothing to do with commerciality.
Im sure i heard 'oldman' or 'like a rolling stone' more than once..why because its a hook and reminds the listener of what the songs getting at.
Example:
How does it feel, how does it feel?
To have on your own, with no direction home
Like a complete unknown, like a rolling stone'
What's the point of 'headlights on the ceiling' anyway? We've all been there, who's that? or the excitement you feel when it's someone you were expecting !
It's not being seized upon, the 'hook ' that the song has , which i like a lot is 'in the morning' but it's repeated again which devalues it ,cos it's lost energy somewhat...
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I'm not defensive, I just explained why I like the song as it is. It may help people understand why I mixed it like I did.
As to the so-called rules of songwriting:
Woodstock is mentioned once in the song and isn't in the chorus.
Positively Fourth Street isn't in the song once, neither is Subterranean Homesick Blues. Both were hit singles. Admittedly a long time ago.
After the Gold Rush doesn't include the title either. It didn't stop it being a minor hit for Prelude.
All the above are great songs written by great songwriters that have stood the test of time. Using the title more than once isn't a fact or a basic songwriting principle. Its just a very popular and successful way of writing a song. Its not the only way though.
Headlights on the ceiling will mean different things to different people. For me it means laying back thinking about what to do, what life has in store, in this song, whether the woman should stay or go. For Lynn it may well mean something else. It clearly means something to her as its the title of her song. That's enough for me.
Only hearing the title once doesn't stop me liking the song. The same thing happened when I bought Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Volume 2 as a 16 year old and heard Positively 4th Street for the first time. I didn't care that the title wasn't in the song. Neither did it stop me thinking Joni Mitchell's Woodstock was a great song when I heard it covered by Matthews Southern Comfort. When I finally heard her version it was even better.
Forcing Headlights into a set structure would create a very different song. Not necessarily a worse song but a different one. There is room for all sorts of songs, even songs that don't follow the accepted conventions. For me this is simply a great song.
The tree of life grows many branches, enough to accommodate one or two odd song structures.
Keith
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Ok , maybe i made a rule up that isn't 'law' , but some songs may benefit from it,and i think this one would do. Why not call the song 'in the morning' then.
All i'm saying, and maybe this is Lynn's call , is that the title is right at the beginning and forgotten by the time you are a third into the song...bring it back again once towards the end.
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Ok , maybe i made a rule up that isn't 'law' , but some songs may benefit from it,and i think this one would do. Why not call the song 'in the morning' then.
All i'm saying, and maybe this is Lynn's call , is that the title is right at the beginning and forgotten by the time you are a third into the song...bring it back again once towards the end.
Most of my musical education came from the radio at a time when there were a number of brilliant songs that didn't repeat the title or even include the title in the song. For singles I wanted to buy I'd have to listen out for the title or the artist. After discovering Dylan and many others I no longer find it odd if the title isn't an essential part of the song.
"In the morning" isn't a very descriptive title for the song. Its about adversity, love, fear, loneliness, hope and eventually independence. Adding another headlights on the ceiling would feel, at least to me, contrived and would stand out like a sore thumb. She has decided to walk away and not rely on anyone else to save her, why would she need headlights on the ceiling, they have been and gone. A bit like in real life they shine brightly for a few seconds and disappear.
Part of listening to Dylan and discussing his songs at school was asking what the hell does Positively 4th Street mean? Especially if you lived in a northern port off the East Coast of England.
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Ok , maybe i made a rule up that isn't 'law' , but some songs may benefit from it,and i think this one would do. Why not call the song 'in the morning' then.
All i'm saying, and maybe this is Lynn's call , is that the title is right at the beginning and forgotten by the time you are a third into the song...bring it back again once towards the end.
Most of my musical education came from the radio at a time when there were a number of brilliant songs that didn't repeat the title or even include the title in the song. For singles I wanted to buy I'd have to listen out for the title or the artist. After discovering Dylan and many others I no longer find it odd if the title isn't an essential part of the song.
"In the morning" isn't a very descriptive title for the song. Its about adversity, love, fear, loneliness, hope and eventually independence. Adding another headlights on the ceiling would feel, at least to me, contrived and would stand out like a sore thumb. She has decided to walk away and not rely on anyone else to save her, why would she need headlights on the ceiling, they have been and gone. A bit like in real life they shine brightly for a few seconds and disappear.
Part of listening to Dylan and discussing his songs at school was asking what the hell does Positively 4th Street mean? Especially if you lived in a northern port off the East Coast of England.
You're not Dylan, this is not a Dylan song...
The song really is about how a neglected woman with a drunk father probably in a unsatisfying home , and how she feels in the 'morning'
1) when he leaves her
2) when she starts to understand months later he ain't returning
3) when after even more months she decides to do one.
Theres no metaphorical use of the title, she waits for real headlights(not an epiphany)
has left the side door open , and he stays with her for a short while and clears off early..
The listener having connected with the first 3 lines ,is deprived of them again ,my opinion.
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I'm not Lynn either. I didn't write the song. You'll have to ask Lynn what she thinks about Dylan.
I'm just explaining why I think the title is ok.
You have an interesting interpretation of the song, not the same one I have, but then I'm weird.
Keith
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Touching lyrics, well written and very sad. Love the soundscape that you've created. I thought initially there was a sort of Cocteau Twins feel to it. There's a good melody. Excellent stuff :)
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Kev, thanks so much. I think Keith has done a good job explaining the production. I like your point about the chorus sounding too much the same. I agree it needs something.
S.T.C. Thanks for the reminder. I'm not sure if it's Keith or I who is not Dylan, but it's probably safe to tell both of us. As to your thoughts about the "rules" of songwriting and the title needing to be in the chorus, well, I can't tell if you're being ironic? Your unconventional use of a space before a comma suggests you are. Sometimes as an American, English humor goes right over my head, but I can sense a rebellious streak in you. I'm glad you liked it.
Thanks PaulyX. Very nice to be compared to them. Thanks.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment Wicked.
Thanks Mutrin. I really appreciate that.
Silvermachine, I always love your reviews. Yes, I lock myself in my attic and make these for fun. That anyone listens and likes them is beyond me. I'm so grateful.
Paulski, haven't thought about the cowboy junkies in years. Very cool. I used to dig them.
Keith, you are not Dylan. Don't forget it. But you are too kind, as always. Thank you for everything.
JoeAntaine, you are also way too kind. Thanks so much.
Pompeyjazz, very glad you liked it.
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very enjoyable listen - nicely delivered.
Sweet sounding until you read the lyrics.
nice job.
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I’m late to this one, sorry about that :-[
I’m pleased that nobody else is Dylan...in fact, I’d have been even more pleased if Dylan hadn’t been Dylan either. One was more than enough, thanks.
Anyway...love the vocals in this...the “in the morning” lines are sung particularly nicely and I quite enjoyed the feel of the production...there was an interesting contrast between the sometimes almost child-like optimism of the delivery clashing with the subject matter and the music did kind of highlight the feeling that all is not well with the world.
I applaud your venture.
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Sorry I'm late to this one too. Had the luxury of listening to this on headphones. It's a sweet, sweet song. Love the melodies and the guitars.
Now here's my crit. The bass is sublime in the first half of the song. Lots of subtle contrasts , but the bass playing drifts and smetimes comes in late at times later in the song.
Tighten up the bass line and you've got a classic here. There's nothing wrong with the rest of the production r mix in my opinion.
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I’m late to this one, sorry about that :-[
I’m pleased that nobody else is Dylan...in fact, I’d have been even more pleased if Dylan hadn’t been Dylan either. One was more than enough, thanks.
Anyway...love the vocals in this...the “in the morning” lines are sung particularly nicely and I quite enjoyed the feel of the production...there was an interesting contrast between the sometimes almost child-like optimism of the delivery clashing with the subject matter and the music did kind of highlight the feeling that all is not well with the world.
I applaud your venture.
Thanks Paul! I understand what you mean. I feel that way about some other legendary artists. You can't like what you don't like, can you? But I'm glad you liked this one and my singing. I worked hard on that. It's a pretty difficult one for me to sing well. Glad I did okay.
Sorry I'm late to this one too. Had the luxury of listening to this on headphones. It's a sweet, sweet song. Love the melodies and the guitars.
Now here's my crit. The bass is sublime in the first half of the song. Lots of subtle contrasts , but the bass playing drifts and smetimes comes in late at times later in the song.
Tighten up the bass line and you've got a classic here. There's nothing wrong with the rest of the production r mix in my opinion.
Thanks Micky. I'm glad you liked it. Interesting point about the bass. Hopefully Keith will explain why he played it that way.
Lynn
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real nice writing style
A relatable story
oh I didn't like the end there! lol
But really nice n' dreamy narration
such a sweet voice
Thanks for sharing
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real nice writing style
A relatable story
oh I didn't like the end there! lol
But really nice n' dreamy narration
such a sweet voice
Thanks for sharing
Rightly,
Did you not like the lyrics or the music at the end?
Thanks for the kind words about the rest of it. I appreciate that, and your criticism, too.
Lynn
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I totally enjoyed listening to this song...had to go back for more ;) I loved the gentle vibe of this track that contrasts nicely with the heavy subject :) Really good song writing IMHO :o
Very sweet vocals, again contrasting with the heavier lyrics :)
I also liked the way it was produced...good job Keith :)
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I totally enjoyed listening to this song...had to go back for more ;) I loved the gentle vibe of this track that contrasts nicely with the heavy subject :) Really good song writing IMHO :o
Very sweet vocals, again contrasting with the heavier lyrics :)
I also liked the way it was produced...good job Keith :)
Thanks so much, crystalsuzy! You're too kind!
Lynn
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real nice writing style
A relatable story
oh I didn't like the end there! lol
But really nice n' dreamy narration
such a sweet voice
Thanks for sharing
the music
Rightly,
Did you not like the lyrics or the music at the end?
Thanks for the kind words about the rest of it. I appreciate that, and your criticism, too.
Lynn
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Very poignant and I always think a song that has a real soul and story to tell like this one benefits from a more relaxed and raw sound.
Having said that, I do think a bit of polishing on the production would enhance it and, just a minor thing but the timing on the bass was occasionally slightly out.
An enjoyable listen though and a song to be proud of.
Yodasdad
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I love this song. It reminds me of the 90s staying up late and watching MTV alternative had loads of cool songs like this. In my opinion everything works perfect an definite alt hit to me