The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: montydog on April 13, 2018, 04:35:15 PM
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Hi Peeps,
Here's another from me. This is about keeping people captive and/or moving them around the world either illegally by terrorists or legally by governments without trial or access to legal representation. I guess Guantanamo is the best known example. I hope I managed to convey something of what is must be like.
M
https://soundcloud.com/alan-walker-4/rendition
I'm sick of these walls
The endless halls
These blues, the greys
And the silence
Broken bones
Weathered stones
Speak to me
In a whisper
I'm falling, spinning round
Settle softly on the ground
I don't know where you're taking me
I don't know why you're breaking me
Just send me
Home
This is the cruelest cradling
To hear the song I cannot sing
Please take me
Home
Set me free
On an empty sea
With the salt, the spray
Of the tradewinds
I've learned much more
On this foreign shore
Than all the words
Of your schooling
I'm falling, spinning round
Settle softly on the ground
I don't know where you're taking me
I don't know why you're breaking me
Just send me
Home
This is the cruelest cradling
To hear the song I cannot sing
Please take me
Home
A bottle of rain
Sweet champagne
Taste the same
When you're drowning
Your lips are cold
The truth you told
Turned out to be
Just empty dreaming
Lock the door
Fevered floor
It's a cold bed
No ones listening
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Hello Alan,
It's good to hear you experimenting with different themes and musical approaches. I think that you made the right choice to focus on the vocal and subdued instrumentation. I stay away from such topics, mainly because I would have to write from the perspective of an observer of a story or journalistic account. perhaps, I should attempt to do something that's embodies more of a social commentary about current events. Still, your writing is to be admired. I have watched you go from strength to strength over many years my friend.
Wicked!
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Hi Alan,
I like the mood and you sing it very well but for me lyrically imo it is too cryptic. I didn't get the songs message BUT there is a solution. Actually two solutions. :)
In your description you talk about this songs message. Those details should be in the chorus section to give us the listener resolution. Once we hear the chorus and it lets us know your in prison at guantanamo bay then all the verse lyrics will make sense and even more sense on each additional listen to us the listener. Solution No2 is even better...Keep it cryptic, exactly as it is but change the title to Guantanamo Bay. This way we learn from the title alone exactly where you are and why you are saying these words.
Both ways will help tell us listening know exactly what you are talking about.
Other than that i thoroughly enjoyed it. A great mood with a crystal clear vocal.
Johnny :)
PS: Just had a thought. The last few lines you could change to... At Guantanamo bay, you don't hear the screams, because no one here, is listening. :)
PS again lol Did you research this subject Alan? If not then do a quick google search about that place and see if you can find people who spent time their talking about their experience cos that should give you even more ammunition/lyrics to add even more depth and truth to your song.
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very nice song.
with the right amount of production.
"home", the reoccurring theme. Lovely.
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Surprisingly... nice. A haunting, sad quality to it. Nice lyrics.
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Alan,
Fabulous vocal performance, the best I've heard from you. The lyrics are deep and love the sax ending.
My only thought was the piano was slightly too quiet and sounded like it was in a different room compared to the vocals.
Definitely upped your game.
:-)
neil
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Very solemn song on a very interesting topics.
Your vocals dominate the song and create a chilling ambience and you .sing really well.
A good listen.
Sandeep
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Yo Alan.
I absolutely love this lyrically.
I particularly enjoy the open endedness (new word) and the ambiguity,leaving the listener to put their own interpretation on the song. I understood it perfectly.
Musically it's perfectly adjoined to that ambiguity.
Great work man.
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knockout
slowly knocked out
outro sealed it
vocal and lyric
piano and arrangmnt sax wooo
great stuff alan
wouldnt call it anything else either.. works for all seasons
nail on head
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Ah man this is so great. The sax ending is just perfect! The lyrics took me to a different place!
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Lovely work, as always, Alan. Tough subject to deal with, but you've nailed the solitary feel and the loneliness and the hopelessness. Imagery is lovely and the sax ending is inspired. It's a great sound, too, and is the perfect length for the subject matter, pace, content. Well done.
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I’ve gotta say, I enjoyed that mate. :D Lovely simple arrangement (not to be confused with not being difficult to arrange ;)) that allows the listener to focus on the words and their delivery. You sound great as always. Lyrics are fab, my fave is the “bottle of rain, sweet champagne, taste the same when you’re drowning”. That’s a glorious line. :D
I agree with Johnny Uks awesome idea of maybe changing the title to Guantanamo Bay, that will put the listener immediately in the room with the singer, without too much guesswork.
Great stuff buddy. ;D
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Nice one Alan - your smooth vocals are the star here.
Very brave of you to put them center stage like that but they demand attention and hold the listener to the end.
For me it could have ended perfectly right before the sax solo which seemed to take it to another place.
Well done - the bar has been raised again :D
Paul
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Really cool song. Love the vibe, lyrics and the message. LOVE the sax at the end...whaaaaaaaaaat. yes yes yes.
Bravo!
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Hi Alan, you've gone for a very sparse arrangement and that works very well to highlight the very smooth vocals. Love the bluesy outro, tops the song off very nicely. Your production and playing skills have improved immensely over the years Ive been listening to you.
Good stuff
Cheers
Jamie
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I think this is my favourite of yours, Alan.
It’s the kind of thing that really interests me, of course...and it’s the topic that should have cost at least one British Government minister his job...
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/10/libyan-rendition-how-uks-role-in-kidnap-of-two-families-unravelled
Anyway, I read Ali Soufan’s “the black banners” a few years back...if I remember correctly, he was one of the top interrogators at Camp Delta and I think came to the conclusion (as most have) that torture yields very bad intelligence and sacrifices much in its gathering.
Interesting to note that ex-CIA John Kiriakou was, I think, the only man prosecuted over the Americans use of torture...and he was - surprise surprise - the whistleblower who revealed that it was happening.
The song has great lyrics (once again) and generates a real feeling of claustrophobia and helplessness. I don’t know if it needed the sax at the end...but it sounds really great, so why not?
Excellent...and a topic well worth tackling.
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Hi Alan,
Really like the vibe in this track.
So stripped and exposed.
Unusual, and an interesting departure.
The sax just adds that bit of finesse at the end.
Classy.
Digger
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The vocals are def the usp here, absolutely stellar!!!
Lyrics worked just fine for me, matched the mode of the backing track very well.
Think I actually prefer these kind of more abstract/open-ended lyrics better than your usual story telling ones (which are still very, very good)
Loved the break down in the middle, goosebumps...
And I even loved the sax solo (and I have not said anything nice about a sax since Baker Street!)
Respect! Well done!
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Hi Alan,
Powerful song on a soul-wrenching subject.
I liked the spare production that focused on the lyrics.
Really liked the saxophones at the end.
Later,
Stan
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Powerful stuff, your voice works really well on it too.
Those opening lines are really evocative. Simple but poetic, nicely done.
And the sax solo is ace. Sparse in the production but just what it needs.
Thought provoking and really great songwriting.
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Hi Alan. Just catching up on some stuff that I've missed. This is simplistic yet lush at the same time which is very hard to achieve. Vocals are deep and velvety with a great presence. It's a very polished piece of work
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Hi Alan,
Really great track, stripped back, loved the vocal, your vocal tone and control is top notch.
I am not going to get into the song subject but loved the arrangement and instrument dropouts to expose the vocal. Good production.
Nice work.
Not many can pull off a vocal like that, including me.
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Alan, this is class! Nooms called it when he said the outro slowly knocks it out.
The song is haunting, and disarming, the space in it draws you in and then hits you hard.
Not sure what you were looking for in terms of feedback, so these are my thoughts. Some of the lyrics were hard to follow, but the picture is painted nonetheless. Maybe they're hard to pin down by design? Some killer lines in there though.
Production wise, I personally think you went in too hard. Drums seemed uneccessary to me, but the piano and bass are killer. Would have liked to hear a bit more drama in the piano sound/ production, but that's more of a personal taste thing.
The way you draw the arrangement back at the end so the vocal plays against the bass is brilliant. Then the sax outro - real moments here man, love it.
It feels wrong to say anything against this because it has atmosphere in spades and I'm sure you know what you're going for. A very accomplished production and very rewarding to listen to.
Nice to hear another from you Alan.
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Hi - very deep lyrics - poet I suppose - good production I think and very clear
Well done xxx
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Wow Monty......top class song ;D ;D
Love the up front vocals. I've heard your stuff for so long now, some of your
vocal phrasing is becoming very familiar to me ;D Love your style old chap ;D
Confidence, Power, Emotion....it's all there. Great stuff mate ;D
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Great drama - very stark and bold. The word "home" is very memorable and encapsulates the theme and the emotion.
I did wonder whether "a bottle of rain" was the best expression for what you wanted to convey in that part - but perhaps it refers to something in particular?
Very brave stuff and a real success in my view.
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Hi All,
Been away on my hols so I've got a bit behind with my thank you's. Many thanks to all who took the time to listen and comment, as always.
Great drama - very stark and bold. The word "home" is very memorable and encapsulates the theme and the emotion.
I did wonder whether "a bottle of rain" was the best expression for what you wanted to convey in that part - but perhaps it refers to something in particular?
Very brave stuff and a real success in my view.
Hi Adam,
That "bottle of rain" line was meant to say that if you're being waterboarded, it doesn't matter what liquid they use.
Hi - very deep lyrics - poet I suppose - good production I think and very clear
Well done xxx
Hi Katie,
Poet is stretching it a bit but thanks!.
Alan, this is class! Nooms called it when he said the outro slowly knocks it out.
The song is haunting, and disarming, the space in it draws you in and then hits you hard.
Not sure what you were looking for in terms of feedback, so these are my thoughts. Some of the lyrics were hard to follow, but the picture is painted nonetheless. Maybe they're hard to pin down by design? Some killer lines in there though.
Production wise, I personally think you went in too hard. Drums seemed uneccessary to me, but the piano and bass are killer. Would have liked to hear a bit more drama in the piano sound/ production, but that's more of a personal taste thing.
The way you draw the arrangement back at the end so the vocal plays against the bass is brilliant. Then the sax outro - real moments here man, love it.
It feels wrong to say anything against this because it has atmosphere in spades and I'm sure you know what you're going for. A very accomplished production and very rewarding to listen to.
Nice to hear another from you Alan.
Thank so much Tone. Really appreciate your comments. The somewhat opaque lyrics divided opinion but I always lean to where the listener can make some of the story up for themselves rather than having it all set out like a news report. Good to hear from you.
Hi Alan,
Really great track, stripped back, loved the vocal, your vocal tone and control is top notch.
I am not going to get into the song subject but loved the arrangement and instrument dropouts to expose the vocal. Good production.
Nice work.
Not many can pull off a vocal like that, including me.
Hi and thanks. The vocals are the easiest thing for me - a couple of takes and that's one live vocal with no patches. If only I could play the guitar that easily :-(
Hi Alan. Just catching up on some stuff that I've missed. This is simplistic yet lush at the same time which is very hard to achieve. Vocals are deep and velvety with a great presence. It's a very polished piece of work
Thanks pompeyjazz - means a lot coming from you.
Powerful stuff, your voice works really well on it too.
Those opening lines are really evocative. Simple but poetic, nicely done.
And the sax solo is ace. Sparse in the production but just what it needs.
Thought provoking and really great songwriting.
Hi,
Very kind words - thank you.
Hi Alan,
Powerful song on a soul-wrenching subject.
I liked the spare production that focused on the lyrics.
Really liked the saxophones at the end.
Later,
Stan
Hi Stan,
I think you've picked up on the main elements that worked.
The vocals are def the usp here, absolutely stellar!!!
Lyrics worked just fine for me, matched the mode of the backing track very well.
Think I actually prefer these kind of more abstract/open-ended lyrics better than your usual story telling ones (which are still very, very good)
Loved the break down in the middle, goosebumps...
And I even loved the sax solo (and I have not said anything nice about a sax since Baker Street!)
Respect! Well done!
Hi and thank you. I have been known to go abstract in the past:-)
Hi Alan,
Really like the vibe in this track.
So stripped and exposed.
Unusual, and an interesting departure.
The sax just adds that bit of finesse at the end.
Classy.
Digger
Ta muchly, Digger.
I think this is my favourite of yours, Alan.
It’s the kind of thing that really interests me, of course...and it’s the topic that should have cost at least one British Government minister his job...
Anyway, I read Ali Soufan’s “the black banners” a few years back...if I remember correctly, he was one of the top interrogators at Camp Delta and I think came to the conclusion (as most have) that torture yields very bad intelligence and sacrifices much in its gathering.
Interesting to note that ex-CIA John Kiriakou was, I think, the only man prosecuted over the Americans use of torture...and he was - surprise surprise - the whistleblower who revealed that it was happening.
The song has great lyrics (once again) and generates a real feeling of claustrophobia and helplessness. I don’t know if it needed the sax at the end...but it sounds really great, so why not?
Excellent...and a topic well worth tackling.
Thanks Paul. The song was not just about Guantanamo - I was also thinking of John McCarthy, Terry Waite and Brian Keenan and the others held by Isis etc. Terry Waite's book "The Cruelest Cradling" gets a name check!
Hi Alan, you've gone for a very sparse arrangement and that works very well to highlight the very smooth vocals. Love the bluesy outro, tops the song off very nicely. Your production and playing skills have improved immensely over the years Ive been listening to you.
Good stuff
Cheers
Jamie
Thanks Jamie - give it another 5 years and I'll be good enough to clean your studio floor!
Really cool song. Love the vibe, lyrics and the message. LOVE the sax at the end...whaaaaaaaaaat. yes yes yes.
Bravo!
Thanks Mutrins - your comments are appreciated.
Nice one Alan - your smooth vocals are the star here.
Very brave of you to put them center stage like that but they demand attention and hold the listener to the end.
For me it could have ended perfectly right before the sax solo which seemed to take it to another place.
Well done - the bar has been raised again :D
Paul
Thanks Paul - I normally prefer leaning on the bar rather than trying to lift it!
I’ve gotta say, I enjoyed that mate. :D Lovely simple arrangement (not to be confused with not being difficult to arrange ;)) that allows the listener to focus on the words and their delivery. You sound great as always. Lyrics are fab, my fave is the “bottle of rain, sweet champagne, taste the same when you’re drowning”. That’s a glorious line. :D
I agree with Johnny Uks awesome idea of maybe changing the title to Guantanamo Bay, that will put the listener immediately in the room with the singer, without too much guesswork.
Great stuff buddy. ;D
Hi, I 'm pleased you liked the "bottle of rain" line - it is one of my favourites. The song's not just about Guantanamo Bay see my previous reply to Paul.
Hello Alan,
It's good to hear you experimenting with different themes and musical approaches. I think that you made the right choice to focus on the vocal and subdued instrumentation. I stay away from such topics, mainly because I would have to write from the perspective of an observer of a story or journalistic account. perhaps, I should attempt to do something that's embodies more of a social commentary about current events. Still, your writing is to be admired. I have watched you go from strength to strength over many years my friend.
Wicked!
Thank you so much - your help on the forum has been invaluable to me.
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Another set of thank you's - I couldn't figure out how to get them all in on the last post!
[/quote]Hi Alan,
I like the mood and you sing it very well but for me lyrically imo it is too cryptic. I didn't get the songs message BUT there is a solution. Actually two solutions. :)
In your description you talk about this songs message. Those details should be in the chorus section to give us the listener resolution. Once we hear the chorus and it lets us know your in prison at guantanamo bay then all the verse lyrics will make sense and even more sense on each additional listen to us the listener. Solution No2 is even better...Keep it cryptic, exactly as it is but change the title to Guantanamo Bay. This way we learn from the title alone exactly where you are and why you are saying these words.
Both ways will help tell us listening know exactly what you are talking about.
Other than that i thoroughly enjoyed it. A great mood with a crystal clear vocal.
Johnny :)
PS: Just had a thought. The last few lines you could change to... At Guantanamo bay, you don't hear the screams, because no one here, is listening. :)
PS again lol Did you research this subject Alan? If not then do a quick google search about that place and see if you can find people who spent time their talking about their experience cos that should give you even more ammunition/lyrics to add even more depth and truth to your song.
Hi Johnny,
Thanks for your very long and detailed analysis. As I've said in previous replies - this song is not just about Guantanamo - it's about keeping people in enforced imprisonment for a range of reasons. I didn't have to do much research - I'm old enough to have been reading about this in the papers while it was happening!
very nice song.
with the right amount of production.
"home", the reoccurring theme. Lovely.
Hi - Great that you got the theme. Home is what prisoners want more than anything.
Surprisingly... nice. A haunting, sad quality to it. Nice lyrics.
I'll take nice, haunting,sad :-)
Alan,
Fabulous vocal performance, the best I've heard from you. The lyrics are deep and love the sax ending.
My only thought was the piano was slightly too quiet and sounded like it was in a different room compared to the vocals.
Definitely upped your game.
:-)
neil
Thanks Neil,
The piano was somewhere in the ether and I was in my recording cupboard - well spotted :-) I'm aiming to improve but I'll never be a one man band like yourself.
Very solemn song on a very interesting topics.
Your vocals dominate the song and create a chilling ambience and you .sing really well.
A good listen.
Sandeep
Thanks Sandeep - appreciate your comments about my singing.
Yo Alan.
I absolutely love this lyrically.
I particularly enjoy the open endedness (new word) and the ambiguity,leaving the listener to put their own interpretation on the song. I understood it perfectly.
Musically it's perfectly adjoined to that ambiguity.
Great work man.
Skub - you liked the ambiguity .......Hurrah - you're on my wavelength. Thanks for commenting.
knockout
slowly knocked out
outro sealed it
vocal and lyric
piano and arrangmnt sax wooo
great stuff alan
wouldnt call it anything else either.. works for all seasons
nail on head
Lovely review nooms and so pleased if worked for you.
Ah man this is so great. The sax ending is just perfect! The lyrics took me to a different place!
That is the idea and at least it's not Ed Sheeran's bedroom ;_)
Lovely work, as always, Alan. Tough subject to deal with, but you've nailed the solitary feel and the loneliness and the hopelessness. Imagery is lovely and the sax ending is inspired. It's a great sound, too, and is the perfect length for the subject matter, pace, content. Well done.
Thank you my fellow west county inmate.
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Not sure how I missed this one but glad I caught it in the end.
There's real sparsity here, but it sure as hell fits the lyrical content and works very well.
Made me think of Leonard Cohen in several ways (lyrically plus also the delivery).
I didn't think it needed the sax at the close to be honest, that was a kind of intrusion in the bleakness of it to me, but I can see why it was a standout feature for many.
I loved the double meaning of the title by the way, if that was intentional. Very clever wordplay.
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Hey there Monty, how have you been?
The song is very soothing, and your voice is GREAT. You gotta know that that sax, at the end is killer. Has the same power that SADE used in their recordings....and maybe even, Bob Segar's, "Turn The Page".
Good stuff...and glad to hear your still here!!
8)-Tom
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Gorgeous stuff Alan, great voice and you deliver the perfect tone IMO. Really like how the song builds then breaks down again, I think you could make more of that? I could hear the bass doing a bit more sooner though so push the song a little before breaking it down for the 'bottle of rain' bit. Lush sax :)