[Mystic Dreamer]

I did a search on these forums but couldn't find an answer to my question so if this has already been addressed my apologies.

Here's my question.

I'm using a Behringer 1204 USB Mixer and recording with Audacity.

Here's my problem:

If I set volume controls to the proper levels based on the mixer level lights the output overwhelms Audacity.  And because of this I need to turn the microphone level in audacity way down as low as I can possibly get it.   Even then I need to run the volumes on the mixer way below where they are supposed to be.

It seems like the USB output of the mixer is just way more than Audacity can handle.

So here's my questions:

Is there a setting within Audacity under Preferences that where I can adjust how sensitive it is to inputs.   I don't see anything in the recording preferences other than latency adjustments.

I see adjustments in the quality preferences for meter/waveform range, but that doesn't seem to make any difference.

Also, is there anywhere else on my computer I can look for interfacing levels?  I'm running Windows 7 on a laptop.

Something isn't right.  I should be able to run the mixer at normal levels and use Audacity with normal levels too.  Right now it's like I'm way down in the mud.  The volumes on everything need to be turned way down and the slightest adjustments to them make extreme differences.

If there is no solution to this problem can anyone offer an alternative free recording software program.

[Boydie]

This is a common mistake that is made when recording

Your software DAW (In your case Audacity) does not control the level of the INCOMING signal

This is controlled by the Audio Interface input (or pre amp) level control - usually a hardware knob but sometimes it is in your audio interface software

My suggestion would be to set the fader in Audacity to 0 (zero) and also the faders on the Behringer

Use the "gain" knob on the Behringer to lower the signal level - the gain knob is the top knob

You should be aiming for your meters in Audacity to be around -9db for the loudest bits

This will ensure you do not record "too hot" and leave yourself some headroom in case the level spikes

If you are recording in 24bit you can even go lower than this (-12 or -18 db) but for now I would just aim for around -9db as a safe compromise

"Gain staging" in recording is really important - especially as lots of the "old rules" (eg record as hot as possible without clipping) are not necessarily relevant with recent technological advances

So, to sort your issue leave the faders at 0 (zero) and use the GAIN pot on the Behringer to control the recording level

Let me know how this goes

[Mystic Dreamer]

Thanks for the quick reply Bodyie, but everything you've suggested is basically what I've already been trying to do.

This is a common mistake that is made when recording

Your software DAW (In your case Audacity) does not control the level of the INCOMING signal

This is controlled by the Audio Interface input (or pre amp) level control - usually a hardware knob but sometimes it is in your audio interface software.

This is what I don't understand about the 1204 mixer.  There doesn't seem to be any Interface level control.  That's what I've been looking for.  A way to turn the output levels of the 1204 mixer down.

My suggestion would be to set the fader in Audacity to 0 (zero) and also the faders on the Behringer

I don't know what you mean by the "fader" in Audacity?   All that can be set is the microphone input level which is actually the USB input from the Behringer mixer.  And if it is set to zero you won't get any input at all.

The "faders" for each track can't be set before recording.  When you press record a new track is automatically generated with the fader on that track automatically set to zero.  The microphone volume level is what determines the volume it will record at. 

Use the "gain" knob on the Behringer to lower the signal level - the gain knob is the top knob

The only "gain" knobs that I know of on the Behinger mixer are the pre-amps for the microphone inputs.  I have been having to keep them turned way down too.   It's like the output of this Behringer mixer is just way more than Audacity can handle or something.

You should be aiming for your meters in Audacity to be around -9db for the loudest bits

Here's my problem:

When I have all the faders on the mixer set at zero.  And the microphone input gain turned down so it's almost off.  The Behringer level record lights only just barely come on (nowhere near as high as they are supposed to go (i.e. zero db).   Yet the input volume in Audacity is still overwhelming.   So I need to turn the USB microphone level control in Audacity down to almost zero just to achieve -9 db. 

This can't be right.

This will ensure you do not record "too hot" and leave yourself some headroom in case the level spikes.

There must be another place where I can adjust the input level that I'm getting from the Behringer mixer.  The Behringer should have a knob for it "USB single output level" or something like that, but I don't see any way to control that.

If you are recording in 24bit you can even go lower than this (-12 or -18 db) but for now I would just aim for around -9db as a safe compromise

Where do I set that?  When I to to Preference/Recording/Quality I see that I am set up for 44100 Hz and 32 bit float.   I didn't set that.  That's just the way it was.  Will changing this to 16-bit or 24-bit make a difference in how it sees the input levels?

"Gain staging" in recording is really important - especially as lots of the "old rules" (eg record as hot as possible without clipping) are not necessarily relevant with recent technological advances.

I have some understanding of how that works on microphone pre-amps.  But it seems to me that what I really need is some way to turn down the output levels of the mixer entirely.

So, to sort your issue leave the faders at 0 (zero) and use the GAIN pot on the Behringer to control the recording level

Let me know how this goes

That's basically where I am.  And the microphone input level in Audacity needs to be almost zero to get it down to -9db.  There isn't any room for any fine adjustment.  Everything down in the mud.  '

The microphone input level of Audacity is almost zero. And this is not a "fader".  This is the microphone input level.   And the recording meter on the Behringer is also down in the mud.  In other words, the first couple LEDs are lighting up, it's not going up to zero like it's supposed to do.  If I turn things up to get the Behringer recording level to read right then I have an output signal so strong that Audacity can't even handle it at all.

Something isn't right.

I just wonder if I have some other interface software on my computer that can control the USB input from the Behringer mixer?

It's like the Behringer mixer is just putting out way too much signal for Audacity to handle.  And that's even when Behringer mixer is turned down so low that it's record level lights aren't even barely coming on.  They are basically useless at this point.

[diademgrove]

I have a Behringer 1622 with a UControl unit which connects the Behringer to the computer. The U-Control is connected to the cd/tape inputs/outputs with red/white leads. I adjust the volume that goes into my DAW (sometimes its Audacity but usually Cubase) with two pots. The first via the mic input, the black pot near the mic input, mines called "Trim". That affects the input signal, usually the slider is set to zero. I also set the cd out pot which is the white one near the main mix sliders called Headphones/Control Room close to zero. That controls the signal that goes to the U-Control and from there to the computer.

I have no leads in the major outputs.

I'm not very technical, when I set it up it worked for me so I left it. Not sure if this will help with your problem. Please let me know if its of any use.

[Boydie]

I am not familiar with AUDACITY - but the input level is usually set by the hardware

From looking at pictures of the Behringer unit the pre-amp gain knob (the black one at the top) is the one you need to turn down

Something I did notice when looking at the picture...

It looks like there is a COMPRESSOR at the start of the channel strip (labelled "COMP")

If this is engaged I would definitely turn this off! - having this cranked up without noticing would definitely be giving you a volume boost you would not want!

If I were a betting man I would think this may be turned up


If this is not the case could you please run through exactly what your set-up is and what levels are showing on the Behringer unit and Audacity when the faders are set to 0

[Mystic Dreamer]

If this is engaged I would definitely turn this off! - having this cranked up without noticing would definitely be giving you a volume boost you would not want!

If I were a betting man I would think this may be turned up.

Nope.  I'm not using the compressors, they are all turned to zero.

I'm not using AUX, or FX they are also set to zero.  I have the PAN in the middle.  And all the equalizers are also midway.  I'm only using one input channel, all the rest are muted.  I'm using the Behringer C-1 condenser microphone with phantom power on.

If this is not the case could you please run through exactly what your set-up is and what levels are showing on the Behringer unit and Audacity when the faders are set to 0

Ok, maybe you're not understanding the problem.

This is typically the way I set up the mixer.

I set all faders to zero.  Then I sing a test song into the mic watching the level meter LEDs and adjust the pre-amp gain until I get a nice recording level with no clipping at the loudest points.

When I do that this is way too much signal for Audacity to handle.  I need to turn the microphone input level down almost to zero too bring the recording level down to a decent recording level.

So, as you suggest I end up turning the microphone pre-amp gain way down on the Behringer mixer.   And that's what I've been doing.   The only problem is that when I do that I lose all indication of record levels on the Behringer mixer.  The simply quite lighting up because there isn't enough signal to drive them I guess.

However, Audacity is STILL swamped with too much signal, and although it's a slightly better situation the microphone input level of Audacity is still way down in the mud at less than 0.1.

I can actually record that way and have been recording this way actually.  It doesn't produce a bad recording this way, but still this can't be right.  There must be some way to better match the output of the Behringer mixer with Audacity so that the Audacity microphone input level doesn't need to be way down at less than 0.1.  And I'm also not getting any indication at all on the Behringer mixer level lights this way either.

I'm way down in the "mud".   Surely this isn't right.

There's also a secondary problem associated with this.  When I record this way, I can't hear what I'm recording in the headphone because it's drowned out by the other music I'm trying to record over.

I can go in and individually turn down all the other tracks so I can hear the track I'm currently recording over them.   But then when I play it back I need to set all those other tracks back up to normal levels.

This isn't right.  I shouldn't need to do all of that.  I should hear it being recorded with all the other tracks just fine.  In fact, it actually used to work correctly on a previous computer I had.  But that computer died, and when I changed over to this new notebook that's when I started having this problem.  So it must be something to do with the notebook sound card adjustments.  But I don't even know how to go about adjusting those.

I also have two options in the "Audio Host" feature of Audacity.  One is called MME, and the other is called Windows DirectSound.   But it doesn't seem to make any difference which one of those I choose.

I wonder if there are ways to adjust the parameters of MME or Windows DirectSound.  Maybe I could fix the problem there if I knew how to modify those.

[Boydie]

Hmmm

I am assuming the Mixer is connected to the PC via the USB - and you are not plugging an audio lead from the mixer to the PC's internal sound card?

I also have two options in the "Audio Host" feature of Audacity.  One is called MME, and the other is called Windows DirectSound.   But it doesn't seem to make any difference which one of those I choose.

I wonder if there are ways to adjust the parameters of MME or Windows DirectSound.  Maybe I could fix the problem there if I knew how to modify those.

I would expect you to be using the ASIO drivers for the Behringer?

Are you able to download an ASIO driver for the Behringer?

Units like this often have their own "virtual mixer" where you can adjust settings such as buffer size etc. when in ASIO mode

In AUDACITY does the Behringer show up as a "windows device" or by its name?

[Mystic Dreamer]

Hmmm

I am assuming the Mixer is connected to the PC via the USB - and you are not plugging an audio lead from the mixer to the PC's internal sound card?

Yes I'm using a USB connection only.

I would expect you to be using the ASIO drivers for the Behringer?

Are you able to download an ASIO driver for the Behringer?

Units like this often have their own "virtual mixer" where you can adjust settings such as buffer size etc. when in ASIO mode.

I don't recall even loading any drivers for this mixer.  I think I just plugged it in and Window just recognized it.

If there is a special driver for it maybe that would make all the difference in the world.  I'll have to look into that.  That might be the solution right there.

In AUDACITY does the Behringer show up as a "windows device" or by its name?

It shows up as "Microphone (3-USB Audio Codec)

Also, when I look in the control panel it has it listed as "Unspecified Audio CODEC".  So it's not recognizing it there as a Behringer Mixer either.

So maybe you're onto something.  I need to check for the Behringer driver software.  That's probably is the problem right there.  I didn't know it had a special driver.  I hope this is the problem.  That would be GREAT.

I'll look for the driver.

[Mystic Dreamer]

That did it.

All this time I was going bananas over this and all it needed was the proper driver.

I just plugged it into the computer and Windows installed automatically so I didn't even think about checking for the correct driver.

And now it does say, "Line-in Behringer USB Audio" in the Audacity options.  And the the volume levels are working they way they should.

I knew it has to be some sort of hardware or software problem because I have a pretty good idea of how to set controls on a mixer and recorder.

Thanks for pointing this out.  I wasn't even thinking about driver software at all.  I was thinking more along the lines of trying to adjust the sound card interface, but I had no clue how to do that.  Evidently when using the correct driver all that's taken care of.

Well, thank you very much for bringing this to my attention.  In hindsight it's a bit embarrassing because I should have been thinking about driver software myself.   I trusted the Windows auto-install too much. Shame on me!

[Boydie]

No need to be embarrassed at all

It is the little things like this that can drive you crazy and are easily missed, especially when you are in the middle of it

Getting a fresh pair of eyes is alway useful - sometimes just explaining something to someone that doesn't know can be enough for that Eureka moment

I am sooo glad you got it sorted