The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Recording => Topic started by: jim morrison on November 14, 2011, 07:44:00 PM
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Just interested, has anyone built a full on studio at home, i'm seriously thinking about doing this down the road sometime. And if you have are there any pitfalls to avoid?
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What do you mean by a full studio? Pretty loose term...
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Sorry , i mean't a complete studio ,ie sound proofing, multi track mixer, amps etc.
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well we have a box room we use that we share with my husbands home gym that is great for drying washing on & wet washing seems to make great sound deadening ;D
we use reaper on the pc which is awesome & if we can manage it anyone can.. to record & mix
& a tiny 4 channell mixer & some good headphones + hubbies old hifi amp & speakers
i sold my amps after having kids...when the kids are asleep believe me you dont want to wake them up... instead i got a got a couple of amp modelers... so evrthing goes straight in the mixer... guitar & bass... & we have 1 mic an old shure mic i inherited from an old band i was in.. so put that on a boom stand with a pop filter & get a load of free plug ins from the internet & some midi drums &thats it... thats all we have! :)
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Type "build studio at home" into google. :o
There are as many way of doing it as there are people. It just depends how much money you have to spend.
Mostly though with emulators or software, everything can go directly into your workstation / recorder..... except vocal. That's the point that I'm at at the moment. I'm trying to figure out a way of building a soundproof vocal booth out of an old wardrobe. I'll let you know how I get on.
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Studios come in many shapes and forms - home studio/project studio, 'pro' studios, local studios, teaching/college studios. Set up a computer with an audio interface and a mic and you have a studio.
Now we are working a bit at a large studio, and in that context, then I dont have one at home. It's a dream to build a studio. Having said that, I reckon I'm pretty well on the way to having a great home studio setup, but a commercial/'real' studio is a different beast. To get there (to what I reckon a good studio would be) I reckon I need a dedicated room, (actually, 2 rooms), properly treated. At least 10 more mic's and preamps, a bigger monitoring system and a great console. Also, very importantly, a load more instruments. Some outboard equipment such as the Manley Massive Passive would really elevate it to something I could be proud of. This is all years away at the moment.
I'd always be wary of 'local' studios that offer cheap rates. You often find they are little more than someones project studio.
Pitfalls to avoid?
- Be clear to yourself, are you heading towards just a home setup for yourself, or do you want a fully fledged working studio?
- To realistically have a proper studio, the room has to come paramount. You should have a dedicated room ad preferably 2 (1 live, 1 control room). If the room doesnt sound great to begin with, you need to have the permissions/facilities to apply acoustic treatment as necessary.
- Dont fall into the trap of getting a cheap mixer/console because 'pro' studios have them. You may see all these fancy consoles in a pro studio and then go hey, I can get a big behringer mixer or phonic etc for not much. What are you going to use it for? Now everything is on computers, not tapes, consoles are not necessary for recording. The reason that pro studios have these huge desks is - to have access to a lot of good preamps when recording a big setup (Are you going to be doing that?). A cheap mixing desk is going to have uninteresting, basic pre's. And also to get the classic 'analogue' sound of a nice console, from the tubes, circuitry. It also impresses clients.
- What is your studio for? If you want to record stuff with microphones, you really need to think about your room and analogue equipment (preamps, mic's etc). Also your instruments.
If you are making electronic music - or orchestral mockups for film, then take a look at Hans Zimmer's project studio. It is a computer, a few keyboards and an excellent monitoring system. His computer packs serious power to run all the VST's and custom sound libraries he's made. He writes his music there and when the time comes to record it with a real orchestra, he goes into a real studio (paid for by the film company I suppose :))
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Cheers for the feedback , i'm just a home recorder at the minute but i'm slowly finding a few people i'd like to work with a bit more seriously. I think i'll do my homework first.
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My setup's pretty minimal, currently GarageBand and iMic (http://store.griffintechnology.com/imic) input for guitars (and possibly mics in the future) and I'd rather keep it minimal. If i'm going to have any synthesisers and amps it's all going to be software (or small hardware). I've been put off having a massive studio rig when my mate (who's a better musician than I ever was) took me on this little course (http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/london/gss-ma11/270805) and it scared the crap out of me, although that's just me. Since it's a kinda "hobby", I'd rather keep it simple and easy (and at home) I mean, it's great for the professionals that know what they're doing, but I'd hate to work with that much stuff, and I just wouldn't be patient enough for the time and effort (and money of course).
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Unless you have a big cellar or something (thinking of people in the US who build home studios), it'll be hard to build a studio inside a house, unless you use one bedroom as a control room and feed the cables through to another one to be a "live" room.
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Hi Jim :)
Here's my setup... well so far :p
I have EZ Drummer to do most of the drums.
I use Ableton Live 8 because a friend gave it to me for free
I have a Line 6 Pod Farm to run my guitar/bass/vocals through
I Have a Samson C03 Mic ( Which I have to say was a great buy.)
And have recently aquired a Nocturn49 Keyboard.
I have a bass
And a guitar
The reason I have gone down this root is because I have to do it all myself.
So like someone said earlier. I didn't see the point in building a "studio" as such, with
all the huge mixing desks and other studio paraphernalia.
I spend a lot of time learning to use these tools as I go along. I'm only just beginning to get mixes loud
enough and sounding something like. Rather than dull or muffled like they were at first.
Next on my list are some good monitor speakers instead of these cheap headphones I have to use.
I have only just worked out that I can use my Nocturn with sounds that exist inside Ableton Live 8.
So I might write something with Keyboards in it, as soon as I learn how to play it lol
I must say that compared to the cost of a proper home studio, this was definately the right way to go for me at least.
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Hi Jim :)
Here's my setup... well so far :p
I have EZ Drummer to do most of the drums.
I use Ableton Live 8 because a friend gave it to me for free
I have a Line 6 Pod Farm to run my guitar/bass/vocals through
I Have a Samson C03 Mic ( Which I have to say was a great buy.)
And have recently aquired a Nocturn49 Keyboard.
I have a bass
And a guitar
This is almost the setup I'm aiming for, except I'm hoping to upgrade to Logic. I'm having trouble getting good distorted tones from GarageBand amps, but cleans are fine.
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I've heard lots about line 6 pods, are they good?
I like this tech stuff about setups - what are other peoples setups?
What are you hoping to get/wishing for? Are you stuck with what to get/what to work towards?
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what are other peoples setups?
What are you hoping to get/wishing for? Are you stuck with what to get/what to work towards?
well i more or less said what we had somewhere above but ive rummaged around & written down some model nos
we use reaper
a little berringer 4 track mixer eurorack 802
a shure dynamic 545d mic
beyr dynamic dt990 headphones
a vamp2 modeller
a cheap casio keyboard
1 jackson & 2 ibanez electrics
esp electric bass
now thats what we use but.....we also have
a huge digiteck gnx4 effects board i cant work out how to use
a boss dr670 drum machine i cant work out how to use
addictive drums we couldnt work out how to use it sat on my pc for 18 months till september this year when a very kind guy from NZ took a lot of trouble to explain it to us so we now have it sort of working ;D
so you see yes we would like better gear but theres not much point cos we probably couldnt get it to work so were sort of stuck :)
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Lol, how about the manual?
Addictive drums seems popular....Anymore setups?
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The line 6 podfarm is great I must say. Compact, durable and with many sounds to choose from.
The good thing is that there are many different effects Distortion,chorus, phaser and so on and many
different cabs and amps and so on within it so you can have pretty much any setup you want. Everything can be
edited to get the sound you want. plus there are add ons you can purchase to give you even more choice.
I don't have any add ons myself and make do with creating the sound I want with everything that is available.
It also has a mic input which is great because I can do the same for vocals too.
I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to tchnology, so it's ease of use is great for me.
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What are the add-ons? Have you ever compared it to a real amp - are there differences?
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Not so much posting of setups? :( I'm hoping to uncover some gems/get a nice discussion going. That line 6 looks cool! I'll post our home setup to get the ball rolling more. We dont really use any midi/vst so I've spent some time trying to get the acoustics right :S
Here we go:
Mics:
Neumann KM 184
Shure sm81 x 2
Røde NT1-A
Golden Age Project R1 Mk3
Røde M3
Shure sm57 x 2
Preamps:
Neve 1073LB
Focusrite ISA One
SPL Goldmike
API 212
Other hardware stuff:
Lexicon MPX-200
Manley Massive Passive (but only on demo for 2 weeks :()
Echo Layla 24
Adam A3X monitors
Software:
Cubase 5
Various Waves plugins & couple of PSP plugins
Instruments:
Yamaha FGX Acoustic
Martin D18 Acoustic
Epiphone Les Paul (& marshall dfx50 amp)
Takamine Acoustic Bass
Hofner 'violin' bass
Yamaha Arius piano
Old hammond organ
Old mandolin (make?)
Old nylon guitar
Various percussion stuff
I've built a couple of bass traps for the acoustics (out of rockwool and wood), but out of fear of them not really working too well (and being a bit unwieldy) I've ordered 2 corner traps. A couple of home made absorbers and I would like to get some diffusors....Of course on the wishlist is a nice big, dedicated room of my own!
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I am definitely determined to get the Line 6 Pod, just sounds like what I need for recording AND live (if I ever get that far). But my dream would be to get the Fractal Axe-Fx (http://www.fractalaudio.co.uk/), since I've heard in practise in recording and genuinely sounds like the guitars are mic'd.
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I am definitely determined to get the Line 6 Pod, just sounds like what I need for recording AND live (if I ever get that far). But my dream would be to get the Fractal Axe-Fx (http://www.fractalaudio.co.uk/), since I've heard in practise in recording and genuinely sounds like the guitars are mic'd.
Looks awesome - and awesomely expensive! I guess I'll be sticking with my amp for now :P
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Erm... lol You know I have friends who could tell you the specs of virtually anything and everything to
do with guitars and wether they sound exaclty like the real amp or effect does. Unfortunately I don't know :)
Never had enough money to play through anything like what anyone would call a great amp. Never had the money to
buy all the different effects. All I know is that I can get the sound I want out of it because every amp and effect can
be played with, to get the sound you want. There are quite some well known artists who use them. And because I want to
record by plugging straight into the pc without haveing to have big amps or recording gear in my small recording room, it is perfect.
Here's a list http://line6.com/artists/list/
Here's a youtube vid
&feature=relmfu
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why do you need all those mics & preamps ramshackles & what do the preamps do exactly that a mixer doesnt do?
by the way i dont know how to take this remark ..... cant you see non technical people dont understand manuals?
Lol, how about the manual?
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why do you need all those mics & preamps ramshackles & what do the preamps do exactly that a mixer doesnt do?
by the way i dont know how to take this remark ..... cant you see non technical people dont understand manuals?
Lol, how about the manual?
lol!
Well, a mic preamp solely amplifies a microphone signal. Many (most) mixers have preamps built into them, which is where the confusion lies. Mixers are used for live situations (where you have to set levels, panning (and eq) on the fly) or in the studio usually for mixing purposes (after recording) or as a source of a number of preamps. They have extra stuff which is necessary for actually mixing music, such as a number of inputs which are summed to a single stereo output (lots of mixers also have direct outs on each channel), panning knobs, eq sections, different routing options (groups, aux's, sends, inserts) etc etc.
Preamps are solely for amplifying the signal. There are different ways to go about that and different preamps affect the signal in different ways - giving it a different sound. When you buy a stand alone preamp they are often for 1 or 2 inputs.
All in all, at home I have 4 preamps, 1 is stereo giving me 5 channels. Sometimes we might record a little acoustic session altogether. That might be 1 guitar and 2 or 3 voices. If I put 2 mics on the guitar - I will have used all 5 inputs (3 vocal mics, 2 guitar mics).
And for the mics - well the sm57's I got recently in anticipation of doing gigs (eventually). The rest - it's like preamps, different mics, different flavours. Some mics are particularly suited for a specific purpose - small diaphragm mics (Sm81's, KM184) work well on my acoustic. The ribbon mic works well for our lead singers (both girls) etc etc.
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thankyou for explaining all that
but it does all seem a bit of a luxury particulerly those preamps compared to all the other gear you need for home recording
do preamps & diff. mics realy make the diffrence between amateur & pro?
& im sorry i still cant work out whether your the archetypal blunt northerner or just condescending so ill have to give you the benefit of the doubt until you make it clear :)
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The song is everything , gear is secondary - discuss ;)
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Well, preamps are necessary. When you plug your mic into your behringer input, it's going through a preamp.
I reckon preamps & diff. mics do not at all make the difference between amateur and pro - if you have 500 different mics and consistently pick the worst one for any given situation, it's not so pro I guess ;)
As for all the other gear you need for home recording, My list of things that are absolutely necessary: Instruments (!), something to record on (whether it's computer, harddisk recorder, tape, whatever), and microphones, which need preamps.
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The song is everything , gear is secondary - discuss ;)
Song is always everything. Depending on who you are. Here, everyone is a songwriter, so yes the song is everything.
Of course, while I might appreciate some demos with a recording quality less than that of commercial songs, I dont think I've ever actually paid for something that's been recorded poorly. That doesn't mean all demos/home recordings are recorded poorly. Fleet foxes made their first album as a mix of home recording and paying for studio sessions and then used that album to get a record deal. Pomplamoose do everything at home. Bon Iver recorded his debut in a log cabin in the woods with just a couple of mics.
All the junk I have is explained by 3 things:
1. Inherited/gift/'borrowed'
2. We try to record our stuff the best we can. Occasionally we've been into studios - although after a while I thought that unless we were willing to pay uber money for a great engineer then I can do a better job at home (provided I get the room acoustics sorted out :S). There are so many local studios that are basically a guy with a setup not too dissimilar to what any of us on this forum have, who have decided they are a studio and got themselves a nice website. It doesnt mean they are actually any good at recording or mixing. I've found that out the hard way. In the long run, it's cheaper to get the gear yourself than to pay out for good studios.
3. The most important :- I'm a huge geek for crap like this :) I will never have enough toys. If you go on to a recording geek forum or watch a recording show with some famous dude, they are always sat in some uber studio packed full of gear, yet they are talking about the latest gadget they just have to buy :). One dream of mine is to have a pro, working studio, so I collect :) I've got all the stuff so far without ever financing anything or ending in debt so thats already a step ahead of many commercial 'studio' owners...
Anyways, back to the original q - will preamps and mics make all that difference? As this is the recording forum, I'm gonna pretend that we have all written perfect songs and take that out of the equation. The biggest thing that will affect whether you actually record it well (apart from the performance :P) will be the actually positioning of the microphones and the room you play the song in. Your choice of mics and preamps is next....but it is a big big second to the room.
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I admire you complete dedication RS
For me though there is a point at which the song becomes a good representation of itself, going beyond that is both time consuming and I honestly don't think the majority of people notice.
Now the best piece of advice I ever got (and it was from you) was to invest in a decent mic and audio interface. I use a rode nt1a and a focusrite saffire - this is basically my set up - I am delighted with the quality I can produce with that. Although I run logic on a mac I believe this part of the set up could actually be any PC/DAW.
I have a really good yamaha keyboard but choose to play a cheap Alesis 25 keyboard as its portable and I really like the action. I have 3 guitars but I stress for me it all about the mic and interface.
As an aside I too love the fleet foxes but I am confused - I thought you didn't like radio 2 music ;D ha ha - they are on radio 2 non stop! Infact it's where I got I to them.
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I admire you complete dedication RS
For me though there is a point at which the song becomes a good representation of itself, going beyond that is both time consuming and I honestly don't think the majority of people notice.
Now the best piece of advice I ever got (and it was from you) was to invest in a decent mic and audio interface. I use a rode nt1a and a focusrite saffire - this is basically my set up - I am delighted with the quality I can produce with that. Although I run logic on a mac I believe this part of the set up could actually be any PC/DAW.
I have a really good yamaha keyboard but choose to play a cheap Alesis 25 keyboard as its portable and I really like the action. I have 3 guitars but I stress for me it all about the mic and interface.
As an aside I too love the fleet foxes but I am confused - I thought you didn't like radio 2 music ;D ha ha - they are on radio 2 non stop! Infact it's where I got I to them.
Ah well, I dont know what I'm talking about with radio 2! I always associate it with...katie melua or something :S Fleet foxes are awesome! (I've seen them twice this year :P)
Nt-1a into the saffire is a pretty darn good setup anyway. The preamps on the saffire are nice and focusrite is a very reliable name (My focusrite pre is very nice). It starts to get to pretty subtle differences when you get beyond that. And differences that really only make a difference if all the other elements are place (The room will always have a biggest effect on the sound - it so easy to hear! When you sing in the shower, your bedroom, the garage or a closet, the differences are easily heard).
Like what you said, I think DAW choice is more about what you are comfortable with rather than if one is better than the other. Same with pc/mac I guess...
Of course, my 3rd point was the big point - I'm a huge geek about all this :P. I got the basic setup down and now it's a case of, am I willing to pay 100% more for tiny improvements? Of course I am! :P I spend most of the time at the moment trying to improve my room at home, which sounds like a box.
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I know you would!
I really admire you dedication - I mean that, and you can hear it in your songs .
Funny thing is despite all this technology I would argue that the majority of music is listened to on fm radio >:(
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so a rode nt1a with a focusrite saffire is a good setup ...do you still need a mixer & does anything else go thru the focusrite like bass guitar?or is this just a thing for vocals
i saw that mic witha focusrite saffire pro14 for £296 today would that be a good price
its a lot of money but with christmas & my birthday soon after i might be able to swing it im sure my husband will think ive gone bonkers tho after ive been banging on about wanting scuba diving lessons all year
of course the big question i want to ask is will i be able to get it working i dont want it to end up on the cant understand how it works shelf ;D were not all geeks!
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Im with Kafla with songs the thing, sink or swim,
agree on the manuals Tinam, cant read them myself...
this might help you understand...stop me if youve heard it before
The old record turntable had a pre amp. it boosted the signal to your hi fi amp..
Pre amps in recorders and interfaces do the same and some do it better than others...
Therefore to get a better quality signal, depth, you use a phantom powered pre amp which is either built into the recorder or interface unit.
I use an old shure 58 which i like for some vocals, bit of edge or something and an AKG414 condenser mic.
the shure 58s a dynamic mic so goes into a line input jack..
The AKG s a condenser with a chunky xlr plug on it, it needs voltage to drive it and gets it from the desk or interface via phantom power.
Also agree that most people, including myself, cant tell the difference, its not what you listen to first time you hear something, your listening to the song, i think we only hear the ‘data’ when somethings amiss...or a hit.! .
Most my gear is ancient, acquired over the years and based around a tape machine.
Was two tape machines, the old B16 lives in the cupboard now, heads worn to zilch, but i retain and cherish the surviving Tascam 388 and will weep the day it doesnt answer me..
Ive got a lite version of protools on a pc which i use to edit with and an HDR recorder thats replaced the B16.
old Seck desk, very basic but it works in a simple fashion.
outboard fostex compressor and alisis midiverb.
Ive been fortunate and grateful to a close mate for the HDR, cos i couldnt have afforded it but o course i never learn and burned the card recently buying a beautiful kurzweil pc3x., i wanted the closest i could get to a real piano and wow was it worth the ear bashing... however the manual is a phonebook and competely unreadable, i just glaze over, but the piano sounds fantastic..
Understand your dream of a studio Ramshackles, really do, if its supported by your community of players to do your own thing then thats beautiful, but if you rely on booking in bands and artists its another story, bad bad time for working studios, dying quietly in the forest...
people like us wont pay anymore, its sad cos as you say the right room is magic
for enthusiasts only..
( ) tascam388, found on you tube., .
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That videos class nooms :D
Yeah tinam you can plug anything you want into it, mines has 2 inputs plus 2 midi inputs so you can plug guitar, bass or keyboard into it.
But my keyboard is USB so I just plug that straight into mac
You don't need a mixer, your DAW will do that , I believe you use reaper.
So plug focus rite into pc/mac through USB. Reaper will recognise focus rite and your good to go.
I live the ride mic, will pick up a whisper !
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morning kafla
yeh, great narrator, dont know if he's taking the P or not !
bit like david brent !
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thankyou nooms im pleased to hear someone else cant understand manuals! ;D
thanks kafla im probly going to buy the rode & focusrite..... the only thing thats stopping me is ive always been rather proud that we have got so far with realy basic gear! :)
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Thats some groovy old stuff nooms :)
It's definetly a nice signal chain (the focusrite and nt-1a), but you might want to do a bit of research before taking the plunge - there are a tonne of options at that price point. The saffire is an interface as well as preamp - if you already have an interface you might only want a preamp etc etc
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oh well ive ordered it now ...my hubbie kept pestering me to buy it last night if that was what i wanted.... so i did & i will be having it for christmas
so youll all be telling us how good our singer sounds for a change when the new year comes! ;D
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My friend uses guitar rig and i must say i've never heard that quality before from software.Unless anyone can suggest anything better than this i think i'm going for it. Just think the equivalent in hardware i.e amps etc. would cost a fortune unless your jimmy page.
Whilst on the subject i would highly recommend watching 'it might get a bit loud' ,you can find it in bits on Youtube or just download from itunes.
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My friend uses guitar rig
my brother said i should try guiatr rig it seemed realy expensive but i downloaded a demo version & i just could not get it to work proprly i spent ages fiddling around with it & the latency i got made it totaly unusable... i was extremley disapointed & glad i tried it first
see if you can get a demo version to see if it will work on your pc first
i am back using my Berringer Vamp2 ...cheap & simple & its not software so no latency
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I have gtr from waves which is pretty good...no substitute for the real thing, but useful when I want a different tone...
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At the moment it's a case of boarding out our loft ,starting from scratch and then getting all my gear some where practical ,after this stage it could get interesting and expensive :-\
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My "studio" may just get a big boost. Found this RAM deal (http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Mac%20mini%20%28Intel%20Core%202%20Duo%202.66GHz%29%20DDR3%20-%20Mid%202010&pl=Apple&cat=RAM) on Crucial. Have been having problems recording tracks with lots of recorded instruments but this may just help!
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Guitar rig is a good piece of kit there is no doubt about it. I have used it before. I think we are up to guitar rig 3 or 4 now.
I don't use it anymore though. Only because I bought a line 6 pod farm for my guitar AND for vocals as there are a lot of
vocal oriented stuff in it too. My guitar, vocals and Bass all go through the line 6.
It has a jack input for guitar plus your standard mic input. There are many many variations of effects, amps
and gear that you can use to get the sound you need, plus of course you can tweak everything. There are also tons of presets that you can
mess about with and tweak. Plus you don't need to spend a fortune on an expensive soundcard (If you are recording on a computer) because it
has it's own inbuilt which it uses.
I still have have guitar rig... Just never have to use it anymore.
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...here's where i am with the home studio...currently converting single stand alone(ish) garage in to a studio...now the kids are finally playing music I can use the excuse of a "music room" (make funny gestures with fingers)...but its a studio ..end of:)
so it's only one room as can't stretch to a control room...and probably wouldnt need one as it will be mostly piano/guitar/midi stuff..
..the kits pretty basic yamaha p80, assorted guitars, sax. cubase and a couple or rode nt1...which are the start of a mic collection. The room is big enough to do drums if need be so am working to a 4 mic setup on that.
the point i'm at in the build is treating the room to make it work acousticly...very low ceiling and not massive. I'm building floor to ceiling bass traps out of rock wool (RW3) in all four corners as i want to kill the bass..i'm also using the same slabs of rock wool to create half a dozen acoustic panels for the walls and ceiling to cut down on standing waves...whatever they are. I have a friend who runs a studioand was really keen to have a look at the space and help me do it cheaply. I was looking at spending way too much on fancy acoustic tiles, but am assured that this "superchunking" bass traps will be even better and cheaper....and can even look ok too...so total acoustic treatment about £100
the room isn't particluarly soundproofed but am hoping the thermal isnsulation i have put in will help in both stopping sound get in or out.
completely agree with earlier comments on not needing a desk..i have one from the old days...and have picked up a cheap newer one as a swap..because it came with active monitors too... and apart from a convenient way of switching sources to my monitors its not much use....
... i still have the big "which interface to buy" question to answer...any advice.....must have midi and paontom power....unlikely to be doing a band anytime soon so probably only need a couple of inputs but worried about buying something that i will grow out of too quick.....but then dont want to overpec/overpay for channels i will never use....any tips/advice greatfully received....
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Hah Nooms! I had a Tascam 388 for many years. I bought it on HP in the mid 80's and it was the most expensive thing I've ever bought..... £2,500 was a lot of money in 1985! I had a lot of gear then based around a MIDI studio and I did a lot of recording for other people to help pay for it. I still do some recording for other bands - sometimes live gigs sometimes here - but I fall short of having a 'proper' studio although I did have a room for drums until I had to take in a lodger recently.
One thing I would say to anyone who dreams of having a commercial set-up is be careful. When you are in the situation of recording other people in order to pay for your gear that can have a big damping effect of your own enthusiasm for music. I don't think I ever finished more than a couple of things of my own in all the years I had the 388, and after recording streams of amateur singers who had won karaoke competitions and thought they were the bee's knees, I sold all my gear, not to write or record another thing for almost ten years. It was recording 'The Wind Beneath My Wings' three times in one week that had been the final straw.
When I got back into it I vowed to keep it simple and actually finish stuff: unlike before when all my own recordings were in a state of permanent flux and tweaking. Now I have more of a 'finish it in a few days' philosophy.
All my recent songs here - ie: Sad About Us, Your Light Will Shine and Rainsong were recorded on this set-up:
Korg D888 (wonderfully simple Hdd recorder that can do 8 tracks simultaneously)
Yamaha MX-16 mixer (for monitoring only really - wav files are dumped via USB and everything is mixed in Garageband).
I have an upmarket Roland pre-amp that I bought in a sale for £100 down from £500, but I often use the Korg ones on the recorder.
Mics:
Rode NTK-1 Valve Mic - overhead drums, acoustic guitars most vocals.
Rode M3 - this is actually my favourite mic for my own voice.
Several SM57, 58 and others for toms, guitars etc.
I use a 'Yoga' (Maplins) mic for bass drum - I have two . cheap as chips. Good for amps too.
Guitar amps
I'm a guitarist by trade so I do have a fair few of these:
Vox AC15 handwired - just changed for a Blackstar HT-50 last week.
Peavey Classic 20 - very unlike the ubiquitous Classic 30, The 20 has almost no very clean sound and breaks up early. This is my favourite recording amp - and many other people's (Beck (not Jeff) swears by his). Only made for a short period, they crop up now and then on e-bay. Amp of choice on most recordings.
Peavey Delta Blues - an old favourite
Roland Cube.
Fender external spring reverb unit. '63 re-issue. Essential for surf -'that' sound.
I'm not going to list my guitars. I have a lot.
Bass is nearly always a Ibanez Sound Gear 900 with active Bartollini pickups, DI'd. This bass records so beautifully. It cuts through on even the smallest speakers. I also have a Japanese Squier precision I use for Mic'd up bass sounds.
Garageband Garageband Garageband - I love it. Is there anything that can compare for free? Comes with every Mac. I mix everything in it. I resisted the urge to go to Logic in the spirit of keeping it simple and that works fine for me. Sometimes I record demos or non-drum things in just that.
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hi estreet,
the old 388 is still running though its only a matter of time, its part of the family and the eq's brilliant i reckon but the heads are going, it hates rewinding sounds like an old tube train till it warms up...if i could afford to renovate it i would, found another recently on ebay, was in scotland, thought i could break one down and refurbish etc but i wouldnt know where to start so...
i bought it in 88 or 89 second hand from a bloke in notting hill for 1200 quid which was the most expensive thing id ever bought in my life... weighs about three ton but its a living thing...bet it gave you a turn if you watched that blokes vid of it...
...beats me why they cant just recreate its simplicity for a digital age, i guess its my problem though...just not into screens and nonsense that gets in the way...
QUESTION
ive now acquired a D888 which im finally getting to grips with. my problem with it is with what we used to call the trim pots, theyre rubbish, on mine any way, only seem to wake up at full whack...ive since read a few reviews (after the event) which highlights the same problem...
did you notice this and if so what do you use to get around it, another di box unit whatever theyre called now...?
also doesnt seem right the channel select is a physical move of the incoming signal cable, ie if you want to record on another channel you have to physically move the cable...
i may be missing something here as im almost dyslexic with manuals and only read them on the way to the clinic..
any thoughts appreciated..
cheers
nooms
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hi estreet,
the old 388 is still running though its only a matter of time, its part of the family and the eq's brilliant i reckon but the heads are going, it hates rewinding sounds like an old tube train till it warms up...if i could afford to renovate it i would, found another recently on ebay, was in scotland, thought i could break one down and refurbish etc but i wouldnt know where to start so...
i bought it in 88 or 89 second hand from a bloke in notting hill for 1200 quid which was the most expensive thing id ever bought in my life... weighs about three ton but its a living thing...bet it gave you a turn if you watched that blokes vid of it...
...beats me why they cant just recreate its simplicity for a digital age, i guess its my problem though...just not into screens and nonsense that gets in the way...
QUESTION
ive now acquired a D888 which im finally getting to grips with. my problem with it is with what we used to call the trim pots, theyre rubbish, on mine any way, only seem to wake up at full whack...ive since read a few reviews (after the event) which highlights the same problem...
did you notice this and if so what do you use to get around it, another di box unit whatever theyre called now...?
also doesnt seem right the channel select is a physical move of the incoming signal cable, ie if you want to record on another channel you have to physically move the cable...
i may be missing something here as im almost dyslexic with manuals and only read them on the way to the clinic..
any thoughts appreciated..
cheers
nooms
Well what a coincidence that we both have owned those two machines. The rewind went bad on my 388 too but one tip is to take the bottom panel off, flip the plastic caps off of the back of the motors and hoover out the dust - that did help on mine. I still know the guy who bought mine and he had to do a lot more coaxing of it into it's old age than I did, so if that doesn't work I'll ask him what else he knows about the problem.
The D888 I absolutely love, despite it's idiosyncrasies. If I could get a 16 track one or link two together I absolutely would. The thing about the trim pots is annoying but not really a big problem because they do work OK but it all kind of happens in the last 16th of an inch of travel. I've got used to it and just err on the side of the level being a bit on the low side - the machine is low noise enough for that not to matter much. Alternatively use a preamp and set the Korg's input to line. Either way it doesn't cause me problems.
Yes, you do have to move the cable to record on a different track but that actually makes sense in the context of it's design brief. It's purpose is to replace a mixing desk for a live gig whist it records all that passes through it, that's why none of the eq etc. affects what goes to 'tape'. Ive used it to record quite a few live gigs and it does an incredible job of it. That lack of routing that results in cable moving also means you are getting what you see - and not poring through multi-parameter menus in a noisy pub with a guitar in your hands. I find that a boon when I'm recording with the band at home too - it keeps everything nice and simple and lets me focus on actually playing.
It's main foible is that sometimes you have to wait (on a long piece it can be a long time) whilst it stitches a drop-in into the main track but even that has a plus side which I appreciated fully after having a Fostex that saved every take as a separate wav file. You had to try and make sense of a whole bunch of files whereas the D888 keeps it all simple with a file for each track and virtual track only. If you aren't into screens and manuals then surely the D888s straightforwardness will appeal to you when you get used to it. Nice and quick dumping of the Wav files over USB - which I drag and drop straight into Garageband. I love this way of working.
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I think there's a misconception that studios have to be this plush state of the art room with wall to wall carpeting.I used a 15' X 8' space and for sound proofing I used inexpensive sound blankets on the walls and ceiling.Even moving blankets work and they're even cheaper.You're just trying to keep sound from bouncing off of walls,floors,and ceiling.The only thing I miss having is a vocal booth.I record the music first and put the vocal track on last so there's always ways around certain things.
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Sound proofing is not the same as acoustic treatment
Curtains, eggs boxes, foam, etc are acoustic treatment. This changes the way sound reflects and reverberates around the room. Sound proofing can only be done with solid mass, inside large, thick layered walls. Curtains etc etc will not change how much sound comes into and out of the room.
I built my studio with multiple sound isolated rooms and afterwards acoustically treated the individual rooms. The size of studio walls was fascinating (and the science within, including multiple sizes of boarding and insulation for different frequency absorption and reflection, as well as air cavities within then walls).
This is a major misconception in the music world, just thought I would put some minds straight 8)
For most home recording sound proofing is not necessary as most home recording involves softer instruments and tracking one part at a time.... Tracking multiple instruments and recording drums/brass etc....then sound proofing between rooms becomes vital ;D
And wall to ceiling carpeting is only ever used in dead rooms, which aren't used in all studios
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Sound proofing is not the same as acoustic treatment
Curtains, eggs boxes, foam, etc are acoustic treatment. This changes the way sound reflects and reverberates around the room. Sound proofing can only be done with solid mass, inside large, thick layered walls. Curtains etc etc will not change how much sound comes into and out of the room.
I built my studio with multiple sound isolated rooms and afterwards acoustically treated the individual rooms. The size of studio walls was fascinating (and the science within, including multiple sizes of boarding and insulation for different frequency absorption and reflection, as well as air cavities within then walls).
This is a major misconception in the music world, just thought I would put some minds straight 8)
For most home recording sound proofing is not necessary as most home recording involves softer instruments and tracking one part at a time.... Tracking multiple instruments and recording drums/brass etc....then sound proofing between rooms becomes vital ;D
And wall to ceiling carpeting is only ever used in dead rooms, which aren't used in all studios
Acoustic treatment is something I'm only every going to get into properly if I ever have a proper place for a studio. Some questions for you about it, though:
- Did you do the treatment yourself, or have an expert come and do it?
- Did you treat every room, or just the control room. (or did you treat the live room differently so that it has a nice reverb etc etc?)
- Measure the frequency response? Necessary?
- Expensive? I read that just getting the rooms treated is the single most expensive part of a studio...
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OOO and did you buy bass traps etc or build them yourself? Any advantage/disadvantage of either?
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This is a long and extensive thing to talk about so I'll keep it to the main points
-I did the work myself (+ builders onces plans were made!) and used only my ears and test recordings. No sound wave analysers
-I have a live room, a large control room, and an overdud booth.
The live room is kept somewhat live. But it has a diagonal wall which naturally helps with standing waves, and a mixture of surfaces (plaster board, stone, wood and carpet) so all frequencies have a fair run. Also I have three large, movable acoustic panels I use for deadening on the fly, esp for drum recording. I generally like a little liveness though so I usually Led Zep it up with an ambient room mic (more of that sound to come in some song's I'll be posting in the next few months) ;)
My control room is dead and the booth is built into the side of it , so the control room has a total of 7 walls. as such standing waves not an issue. Soft furnishings, standard acoustic foam and curtains cover nearly every surface so very dead. I never needed bass traps with this set up, lucky maybe?
-Overdub booth is again mixed surfaces and 5 walls. And thick velvet curtain behind the mic as an option to reduce reflections to rear
-Expensive? Well, it wasn't cheap. But it is part and parcel of the designing process. Sound proofing is more expensive. Building a vocal booth cost over £2000 (iirc) in plaster board, rock wall, acoustic sealant and timber alone, as the walls are in total over a foot thick!
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There's a picture of my space :o here at #6
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/setting-up-a-home-recording-studio/ (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/setting-up-a-home-recording-studio/)
It hasn't changed much ... it worked ... it allows me to make a lot of noise in a densely populated area & no-ones hears a thing, I even occasionally plug an electric into an amp 'live' & it's cool. I use MixCraft as my D.A.W, an analogue mixer to sweeten the sound & USB FastTrack as the basic pc interface. I probably need a better mic and the drum pads i am outgrowing so there are some upgrades in the air. The entire space (a customised garden shed) is sound-dampened, insulated, all of it, including the door. The acoustics are excellent for singing, my singing has improved ( i haven't got a great voice) since using this sound booth / mini studio. It has air from the outside world and an extractor fan dragging spent air to a window on the other side of the hallway, so I don't pass out while singing, but it does get a bit hot in there sometimes. The extractor hosing is sound-baffled, you don't hear the fan at all - that took weeks of experimenting until i had finally ironed out the fan sound. The only real pain is two monitors to one pc, that can get a bit confusing at times but I need to keep the mic well away from the interface or i get electro-magnetic interference which used to wreck everything, that was another reason why i had to build the space.
Cool forum this is ;)
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heres my studio....the skull belonged to my first husband....you can take that any way you want!
ive put some things that were on the floor on the desk cos i couldnt get evrything in the picture otherwise & i got a few things out i dont know how to use to make it look a bit better & so now it looks cluttered ::) & then i started photo shopping it cos the boxes looked tatty & then i put better pictures on the computer screens ......so basicaly it doesnt look anything like this realy
what on earth am i doing......
im just trying to stay out of the reviews section realy cos there are still people there who need tearing off a strip & i mustnt
i better go to bed
(http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h400/brightlightstonight/IMG_3348d.jpg)
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Yes you are wunerful :)
But what is this space please - is it sound proofed for example, or do you do all your music through phones?
Thanks,
Ric
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hmm im not convinced you realy mean that :)
anyway i said early on in this thread about the room ...you wont be interested in wet washing hanging on a home gym in a box room
i shouldnt think & thats not by choice but it seems to work by accident
there are monitor speakers in the pic but they dont always work so yes headphones most of the time
do you like my prince smiley(http://serve.mysmiley.net/party/party0007.gif) (http://www.blueislandsdiving.com)
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Its the most beautiful smilie in the world ;)
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haha.... prince is great so sexy but not realy much bigger than a smiley
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hmm im not convinced you realy mean that :)
aww, you look like Suzi Quatro (that i remember) but with a guitar ;)
anyway i said early on in this thread about the room ...you wont be interested in wet washing hanging on a home gym in a box room
sorry
i shouldnt think & thats not by choice but it seems to work by accident
there are monitor speakers in the pic but they dont always work so yes headphones most of the time
do you like my prince smiley(http://serve.mysmiley.net/party/party0007.gif) (http://www.blueislandsdiving.com)
purple rain :] but i prefer ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lSRISMVb_E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lSRISMVb_E)
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suzy quatro... oh i like you! ;D
& yes jimi is the absolute greatest!!
do you know i used to go to school with 2 boys called hayes & jones & we used to call them purple hayes & hey jones!! ;D
i wish i was young a gain :(
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suzy quatro... oh i like you! ;D
& yes jimi is the absolute greatest!!
do you know i used to go to school with 2 boys called hayes & jones & we used to call them purple hayes & hey jones!! ;D
;D
i wish i was young a gain :(
adored Suzie Q but she was always given such naff material to work with. She was great but could have been absolutely brilliant :)
never mind though - the music will keep us young ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHfFESFr5qA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHfFESFr5qA)
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Tina, I seem to recall that earlier in the thread you said you were getting a focusrite pre for chrissy. How have you found the addition of a pre in general? Did you find it gave you a cleaner and crisper sound with more control? I would love to hear your feedback on this issue.
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Tina, I seem to recall that earlier in the thread you said you were getting a focusrite pre for chrissy. How have you found the addition of a pre in general? Did you find it gave you a cleaner and crisper sound with more control? I would love to hear your feedback on this issue.
it looks nice on my desk & i love the little blue rings around the knobs!
omg this is embaressing i havent used it...i cant work out how to use it ...it wants me to use this onscreen mixer thing that appears on my computer so i cant use my little berringer mixer & that has thrown me completeley
i realy should try again but i have such trouble with understanding manuals :(
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I only record vocals and acoustic guitar so only needed a simple setup...
I bought a pair of Samson GT studio speakers (ok sounding) but they have two multi inputs with phantom power and USB connect to my PC - I use Audacity free software which is fine unless I want to start using more effects.
Bought a half decent Condeser Mic with pop filter and stand.. and instead of paying loads to soundproof, I use a clothes rack with a duvet slung over it.. .works a treat! :)
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The very first thing i advise you to do is to test the acoustic responses in the room.
Take out everything except your computer (if you are going down that route) and monitors/microphone. Then you will need to obtain the REW software (Its free if you join the home theatre shack forum). This will allow you to take some readings of the frequency response and reverb times in the room. With this information you will know which frequencies to treat.
As for the treatment itself, i (with the help of my wife and mother in law) built all of the bass traps and absorbers myself and treated the whole room for less than 500 euros.
You should aim to have some treatment on the ceiling and a reflective floor (no carpet). This will give you the hard surface/soft surface approach which is common nowadays. The reasons for treating the ceiling instead of the floor is that carpet is unpredictable acoustically and floor reflections sound more natural. Also our ears can understand reflections from the floor much easier as the distance between our ears and the ground doesn't change a lot and the distance between our ears and the ceiling (or sky) changes drastically all of the time.
What i did was to hang some "Clouds" on the ceiling (Absorbers built the same as for the walls).
If you need expert help (and i did) then join the John L Sayers forum, dedicated to studio acoustics (sorry to promote other forums here, but they were a big help in this) and they will be more than happy to help.
Good Luck,
TCT.