[Schavuitje]

Hiya.

Lately I have been working on some new and old material.
This was the first song I wrote about 2-3 years ago when I first got back into playing my guitar and songwriting after many years abstinance.
I joined these forums at roughly the same time and posted it.
It was terrible. Well the quality of the mix,volume, etc were terrible. It sounded very quiet and wooly.
I felt that the song was not being done justice in the state it was in so I have re-worked it.
The long intro is gone. The bass I have redone completely and I have redone some of the vocals.
Iv'e messed about with compressions and lots of stuff to try and make the mix clearer and louder and get rid of that wooly sound.
I'd be interested in hearing how I'm doing because I have been listening to it for too long and I think
my ears are missing stuff.   So mixing/production comments especially welcome as are all comments and opinions of course.  

http://soundcloud.com/the-short-straws/bang-bang

[seriousfun]

Hey, this is a nice song. I never got to hear it first time around as I wasnt a member back then. There are some nice touches going on in here and the vocals sound great, what I can hear of them that is. It sounds like you have a lot of competing frequencies going on in the mix. Especially  the lower end, its a bit boomy.
James will most likely be able to put his finger on it better than I can but I would try some shelf roll offs on everything except the bass and drums on the low end, around about 60Hz. Maybe make a little room for the vocal to sit right by tweaking the eq around the 150-300 area. You could drop all instruments slightly there which would allow you to compensate by nudging the vocal up a tad. Should come through that hole nicely then.
Another area that you could take a gander at is where the breaks are. The just sound a little sudden to me and it does jar a bit. It is as if you have suddenly cut the sound completely and then bring it back in where a more subtle reduction, even if its just the reverb sounding in the distance, would make the gaps less jarring and reduce the suddeness of the guitar coming back in.

Hope those comments are of some help and give you some areas to experiment with  in the mix. Its not really that far away, and I truly think its a good song. I had a few listens and would love to hear it again when it is cleaned up. Some parts sound pretty close indeed to me. I think the guitar arp comes through nicely, its really just a matter of helping each instrument find its own space in the mix and killing off any unwanted frequencies as all they do is take up headroom and muddy what you really want people to hear.

Kudos to you and thanks for posting, I enjoyed it.

[mariopradiptacana]

this is a nice experimental track, just like seriousfun said it's still bit raw but it's getting close. the backing vocal is what astonished me in the mix. it collaborate flawlessly with the main vocal. my impression with the song first time it's like hearing folk singing but as the chord progression goes it turns into a really nice post rock music. the forward placement of the vocal and stereo image of the backing vocals impacts greatly on the song entirely. i think those are what makes the song feels so folk and magical, just like a guy spin a yarn of an old tale or stories because i don't pay much attention to the lyric. oh yeah, and lastly, good job with the lead guitar on the outro, it's hypnotizing ~

[S.T.C]

Could be one of Peter Gabriels cast offs...which i suppose is a compliment of sorts.....my main observation would be , there`s a lack of vision ,a lack of clear thinking...the songs sags in the middle...it lacks brightness..

There is a strong melody going on..so it`s more than salvageable ...perhaps you should be asking for help ....

[ABeautifulVirus]

quite a unique sounding and experimental minded piece. i'm impressed with the scope of the expression- some of the cadences remind me of steely dan- some of the bi-tonals and discord-ants are quite genius-

[travis]

Really nice song love the harmony for some reason it reminded me of a Level 42 song, the title I can't recall?
Best of luck with it
Travis

[Dutchbeat]

very original, as always, Schavuitje

i enjoyed the music, and all the weird and original things going on

I don't feel qualified to comment on the production, but very good to hear a Schavuitje song again

[Paul]

Hi Schavuitje,

Interesting chord changes that engage the listener immediately!  I'd move the vocal up a little perhaps and lower the volume of the guitar.  Very enjoyable drums but again, like the vocal, I'd raise the volume a little.  The drum patterns sound excellent, so don't hide them away.  Overall, a lovely vocal melody, supported by good backing vocals.  If you decide to act on the above, you may have to revisit this after a break to finalise your levels, unless you can raise the aforementioned parts without  causing clipping.  If you raise the volume of your vocal, I'm sure it will engage the listener further.  I'd love to hear those lyrics more easily.  Overall, you've created an unusual and very interesting atmosphere, which I would say, is true of every song that you present.

Well done!

[montydog]

I think the Peter Gabriel observation is a good one. It's far off what I normally listen to. At first it sounds  weird and strange to my ears to an extent that it's almost unlistenable but then you gradually get used to it and it exerts a strange fascination.

The production could do with a polish but it's definately worthy of further investigation. God knows how you come up with something like this or get it to sound like it does 

[Boydie]

I liked this a lot

I actually quite liked the jarring effect caused by putting different segments together

+1 on the EQ comments to make a little more space in the mix in the low/mids

I would also experiement with a wider stereo mix - you have enough going on to balance things out a bit so you could try a braver approach with some more extreme panning, which will also help separate the sounds a little more and give some more "space" to work with

Whilst thinking of "left & right" also think of "up and down" by using some more extreme EQ - e.g. just let some highs through to elevate a particular instrument - perhaps add an occasion high pitch percussion instrument - e.g. finger cymbal, tamborine, high bloc, triangle or bells to give some more high end "sparkle"

You bring a bit more high end in at 2.31 and this instantly lifts the track for me so I would look to add a bit more throughout the track

I also really liked the drum patterns and would have liked them a little more "in yer face"

I missed the original so it may be worth posting a link to it for comparison

[nooms]

excellent..
brings to mind xtc and partrdge, who else..i know theyre close to your heart..
backing vocals are lovely, like fish below the ice..
the lead vocal needs to poke thro a little more,  but not so much you lose the intrigue..
some lovely touches and changes
like that sparkly gtr sound..light fingered, dances a little and @ 2.28 the gtr riffs genius
think you could add something behind the bridge part to make it stand out more from whats around it..

you write in a unique way schavlee, like paintings, i love that about your songs, never sure whats coming, hard to pin down..
good to see you back up there mate..

[Schavuitje]

You got me mate.  I am a sucker for a bit of Partridge and the gang. 
I'm with Songsthatcry on the emptyness on some parts of it though. I hear it even more now that someone else has mentioned it. Not sure what to do about that so am open to suggestions. 

Have read through all the advice on prduction and have listened again after leaving it for a couple of days and I can hear I still have some work to do.
So thankyou for all your help. 
I'm going to go through all the advice and seeing if I can get some improvement. It might take me a bit but when I think I've cracked it I'll post the new mix.

I've searched out the original at I think it was Boydies request.

Btw is it me or is the bass a bit too twangy in parts?

Thanks again everyone for your help.

[Schavuitje]

Oh for God's sake... Heres the link to the original 
http://soundcloud.com/the-short-straws/bang-bang-for-comparing-will

[habiTat]

I like this Schav, it's sort of feels like one of those tracks that would be placed at the end of an album. I think Blur did something like this, a kind of mood changer, possibly 'Yuko & Hiro' or something like that, from the Great Escape album. Well that's how I see it anyway. As a stand alone track I don't find it mega catchy, but I don't think it's meant to be. As for production, I'm not experienced enough to comment really, especially as you are after the technicals, but I like it as it is.

[James Nighthawk]

I like this. The vocal harmonies make it for me, Very atmospheric.

Production notes:

The drums are a little lacking in punch. They are only used in sections, I'd make more of them. Bring them forward, compress the bass drum and snare harder.

A shelf taking out the very low of the elex guitars might allow the bass more room.

Push the bass up in the lower frequencies, and compressor with a harder ratio to level it out. Maybe slap a little 2KHz on the bass to let the rattle of the heavy notes ring a bit.

This sounds lovely on my open cans, but muffly on my BOSE closed cans...

...to help this, try:
At your stereo master...Whack a para EQ at 13.5KHz, notched up about 3db, Q of 1. This will lift some air into the whole mix.

Push a little high mid on your two stereo guitars. And seperate a little more (Try a R60 L60 mix). Perhaps push one at a slightly different freq range to t'other. Say, one at 1.5kHZ and one at 2. Or one with a little 5KHz high pass to brighten up. Two different tones will help us hear a separation

Hope some of these help