The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: CaliaMoko on January 09, 2017, 09:47:40 PM
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You have just under a week to get your votes in for December's song of the month competition! All the contenders deserve lots and lots of votes, so hop over to http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12354.0 for the voting list and PM me your choices before midnight (your time) January 15th. I'm waiting...I look hopefully in my mailbox every 5 minutes, hoping to see your vote. ;D
And remember, if you're on the short list, you need to vote to be eligible for the wonderful prizes of, um, well...1st, 2nd and 3rd.... :P ::)
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Countdown to voting deadline: 5 days (including today). You have until midnight (your time) January 15 to get your vote in for the December song of the month!
If you've already voted, thank you! If not, there's no time like the present. I have 15 votes so far. My goal is 26! Can you help me get there? Using a simple point system of 3 - 2 - 1 points for your 1st, 2nd & 3rd choices, I have totaled all the votes so far and there is only a 7 point spread from 1st to last. It would not take many votes to change the outcome!
So get your votes in, people! I'm waiting.... Head over to http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12354.15 to review the songs and then PM me your 1st, 2nd & 3rd choices.
Vicki
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Remember...ANYONE can vote! That link again?
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12354.15
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Yeah ! Come on y'all vote vote vote. Lets hear from some of you new guys as well
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BUMP!
Votes needed. I have 16. I want 25 (I know I said 26, but I'll settle for 25).
Also, who wants to host the January SOTM? Anyone? Personally, I prefer to get started as soon as possible, if I'm hosting, so I can keep up during the month. So, if you're like me, feel free to volunteer for February, too/instead.
But right now, we do need a January host....
FIRST, THOUGH...VOTE, if you haven't already. PM me your 1st, 2nd & 3rd choices from the shortlist: http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12354.15.
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Up to 17 votes! And, for the first time, a different song has pulled into first place! If you want your favorite song to win, you need to vote! And that's my last word on the subject for today. I promise!
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Get your votes in forumites or I´ll send Skub around to have a word...
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Greetings my lovely, musical, virtual, friends!
If you want me to stop bugging you about this stuff, this is what to do:
1. Vote. Go to http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12354.15, review the short list, and PM me your 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices. I still want at least 7 more votes. I have 18. You, the collective "you", can do this!
2. Volunteer. The January SOTM needs a host. If you don't wanna do it because you want to be in the running, find a co-host. If you (one of you, that is) don't volunteer, we won't have a January SOTM, and I know you don't want that! And I'd really prefer someone who hasn't hosted in the past 12 months. Spread the joy around! Don't hold back because you haven't done it before. If I can do it, it can't be that hard.
Okay...I'm waiting. Voting closes Sunday at midnight.
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Get your votes in forumites or I´ll send Skub around to have a word...
*Skub taps foot and checks names. >:(
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Time's a-wastin', folks! You have until midnight tomorrow to get your votes in. And I'm still short 6 of my goal! So, I'm expecting to see six votes trickling into my private message mailbox in the next day or so (by midnight according to the clock wherever you are).
The winner is by no means assured at this point. The lead has changed hands twice so far. And all the votes are so close together, any song could win...if you just get your votes in!
And, of course, don't forget we really want to have SOTM for January, but we need a host. Come on, people, if you haven't hosted in awhile--or ever--now's the time. It's fun! It's rewarding! It's better than a Hostess Twinkie! It's more exciting than a barrel of monkeys! Watch my watch! You want to host...you want to host....
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My votes are in...
come on, folks...we don't want to see Vicki disappointed!
If nobody else steps forward, I'll host January...
though I'd prefer to see someone new have a go at hosting :)
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This is it, folks. Your last chance to get your votes in for December SOTM. Check out the songs (list here: http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12354.15) and PM your 1st, 2nd & 3rd choices to me by Sunday midnight. That's probably tonight, as you're reading this.
And, it's nice of PaulAds to offer to host January SOTM if no one else steps up, but it would be nice to spread the load around a little more. There's so many of us, no one should ever have to host more than once a year. So, do I see any hands....??
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Just voted. Or think I did. Calia. Let me know if you didn't get my message.
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Got it, Micky, thanks! Now, 5 more and I'll have the minimum I was hoping for....please, just five more of you??
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Come on everyone. Don't let Vicki down. Btw I can host Feb SOTM if no takers as its been about a year since my last host but surely there are more than 12 willing hosts out there :)
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Btw I can host Feb SOTM if no takers as its been about a year since my last host but surely there are more than 12 willing hosts out there :)
but there isnt john there are only 13 core members here ...everyone else either pops in every now & then ,or doesnt care enough to get involved & its just a place to get free attention or advice...
i think its very sad
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I've voted :D
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but there isnt john there are only 13 core members here ...everyone else either pops in every now & then ,or doesnt care enough to get involved & its just a place to get free attention or advice...
i think its very sad
The sad thing is people can get quite a lot out of the forum when they get more fully involved but they don't realise it.
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Would it be worth forwarding a list of the ones who voted to the next host and choosing the nominations from the people who vote? It's a shame to exclude people, but maybe if you needed to vote in the previous months competition to be considered for the next one, more people would get involved?
I dunno...just thinking out loud, really...
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Not getting nominated if you don't vote works for me. Though I'm at a loss as to why anyone wouldn't vote.
Songs often get upwards of 25 comments (though there are some OP ones in there too) so where is everyone?
I'd be up for a hosting session too. Or maybe a new competition (half kidding).
Cheers
Adam
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I think excluding more people will be a shame & make the monthly competiton narrower & worth less & might even kill it off
the problem is people who dont vote just arent involved enough here & I dont think they are aware of a lot of things... so...
if I was hosting the comp this month I would ask vicki for the list of who voted
& I would PM those who didnt vote & have a song eligible for this months SOTM & say:
Omg your fabulous song has been selected for our SOTM! ...talent scouts are waiting! & I am so excited for you.. it is a cracker after all & richly deserves all th...OH NO!!
Ive just noticed you didnt vote last month & im going to have to exclude you! >:(
oh sweetie ,that is such a tragedy ...try not to be too heartbroken... & make sure you vote this month so your amazing talent can have its richly deserved shot at fame next month
(what am i going to tell the guys from Sony Music now???)
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Anyway.
Who won the bloody thing? :D
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IMHO....to bring more people into the site arena, we should do away with the short list, and allow all those who want to submit a song, in the monthly song competition, to enter.
This monthly competition, here at SWF, does need some new blood.....and this just might bring a new and exciting change.
Just saying......and I mean this respectfully :)
8)-Tom
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I like Tom's idea. We do other challenges that way and they seem to work okay. I especially like how it would make it easier for the host to know which songs are in the competition. Have one thread for the month and everyone who wants to submit a song posts the link in that thread. Another aspect I like a lot is that the host doesn't have to leave out any songs s/he thinks really should be included.
Yeah, I vote for this idea. ;D
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Once again, I'm with Tom! :D
I too, support this idea.
/Peter
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im sure the SOTM competition was organised this way for good reasons...(tho i cant remember all the reasons as i had left at the time) so i think someone who was around then & knows exactly why ( like maybe montydog) should explain before people start clamouring for something new :)
im sure it evolved this way over time & after problems were encountered
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They should speak up then because I quite like the idea. Unless it gets like Eurovision and we start having tactical voting :o
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I know I've been revisiting this thread over time and several other similar threads. I would like to suggest that for the February contest which I am quite willing to host (Can't do January) We have Open house and any of the songs posted that month could be voted for ? Whaddya think fellow forumites ? Just thinking of ways to get more participation AND remember how bleedin scared you were when you posted your first song on here. I'm sure that quite a few guys can be scared off. This is a Songwriters forum. Lets support songwriters irrespective of where they are on their development and what quality of production etc is being submitted. Cheers John Pompeyjazz :)
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If I remember rightly, the competition was set up this way because it was thought that forum members wouldn't have the time or inclination to listen to every song that is posted every month. I think this is a fair point but it's not down to me. It's really down to Boydie.
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A few observations:
The 100 post rule was to stop fly Byatt (does that ) and encourage posting ( doubt it)
Finding those to run it next month is hard. You could do away with selection it wouldn't be needed.
Getting people to vote is hard. Automate it somehow. I'm sure Jambrains is a technical wiz and knew how to rig polls make it easier to vote, none of that pm stuff..
Personally I'm not sure it's broken but if we can make it better and more inclusive then great. Any changes should be to make it easy and imho it should be fun and not too serious, more like a show case. I think Boydie had some suggestions around the re-branding??
:)
Neil
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So...pompeyjazz has volunteered to host February (if no one else steps up).
PaulAds says he'll do January, if no one else steps up. I'm pretty sure both of them have hosted in the past year, but probably only once each, so if they do this, in my opinion they'll have put their time in for the year, right??? I really think we need to spread the load around to keep from overworking anyone.
I don't really know the protocols....so does this make it official, or do we wait to see if someone else will come out of the woodwork and volunteer for January?
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I know I've been revisiting this thread over time and several other similar threads. I would like to suggest that for the February contest which I am quite willing to host (Can't do January) We have Open house and any of the songs posted that month could be voted for ? Whaddya think fellow forumites ? Just thinking of ways to get more participation AND remember how bleedin scared you were when you posted your first song on here. I'm sure that quite a few guys can be scared off. This is a Songwriters forum. Lets support songwriters irrespective of where they are on their development and what quality of production etc is being submitted. Cheers John Pompeyjazz :)
If I remember rightly, the competition was set up this way because it was thought that forum members wouldn't have the time or inclination to listen to every song that is posted every month. I think this is a fair point but it's not down to me. It's really down to Boydie.
I think the 100 post requirement is a good one, but I think we should make it a more pro-active contest by calling on those, who want to enter the monthly competition, to actually submit their song.
Maybe a specific monthly competition thread should be opened for those to post their submission.
I think this would foster a new excitement, inspiring more people to enter; and thus, garner more participation with the voters, as well. ;D
-T
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Having to say "I hereby enter my song for SOTM" seems a bit counterproductive to me. I think most people hold a small hope somewhere inside that they'll make it onto the list. And a system favouring the driven over the humble often won't correspond with quality or originality.
We here may have listened to all the songs this month but we'll vote anyway. I think the current format puts things on a plate for the less committed voters.
Having said all that, if we're getting 12 votes a month then perhaps all is not well! Happy to experiment, but I can't immediately see a better system than what we've got.
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heres a list of the people whove hosted Song of the Month going back to september 2015
so if your names not on the list you are shirking & realy should volunteer to host it if you appreciate your forum
it doesnt require much work & only a little organising
Vicki
Scott
Delboy
Neil
Skub
Monty
Tina
Martyn
John (pompeyjazz)
Neil
Paulski
Paul Ads
Viscount Cramer
Jamie
Adam Farr
Hardtwistmusic
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Having to say "I hereby enter my song for SOTM" seems a bit counterproductive to me. I think most people hold a small hope somewhere inside that they'll make it onto the list. And a system favouring the driven over the humble often won't correspond with quality or originality.
We here may have listened to all the songs this month but we'll vote anyway. I think the current format puts things on a plate for the less committed voters.
Having said all that, if we're getting 12 votes a month then perhaps all is not well! Happy to experiment, but I can't immediately see a better system than what we've got.
heres a list of the people whove hosted Song of the Month going back to september 2015
so if your names not on the list you are shirking & realy should volunteer to host it if you appreciate your forum
it doesnt require much work & only a little organising
Vicki
Scott
Delboy
Neil
Skub
Monty
Tina
Martyn
John (pompeyjazz)
Neil
Paulski
Paul Ads
Viscount Cramer
Jamie
Adam Farr
Hardtwistmusic
All I'm saying is we have a contest where you simply post your song to a thread that is specifically for the monthly entries..........and knowing that voters are going to critique your song is always a charge..........thereby eliminating the need to hope that the one host for the monthly contest appreciates your brand of song......it will be up for the whole board to decide. Some potential voters may take a pass if they don't feel their brand or favorite is being represented at that time.
And I also believe that these comps, as well as the regular posting and the content of our posts are entirely up to us to decide. It is all voluntary, is it not? No doubt, that all the volunteers on that list are very generous....I personally thank you all! :D
8)-Tom
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i wonder if people dont want to host the competition bcos they know it will mean they cant win it
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Point 1 - Dont these forum style web site designs have an option to conduct online Polls?
Its easier to press a button than send a PM.
Point 2 - as I speak it says 35 Guest Users online with only 5 members....there appears to be a lot interest in the site but very few who sign up (if i am reading it right) ....I'd let casual users/guests vote if a click poll can be organised - it sometimes feels a bit incestuous and cliquey at times on here - outside opinions of casual listeners are probably more relevant than everybody feeling they have to be nice about each others songs.
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I've outlined this once before but I'll will give it another try (and of course, this is just my personal opinion)
My suggestion
1) Anyone can enter the comp (100 post rule but not needed if item 4 is included). Because of this the comp organizer will not have to bear the burden of short listing so only a small amount of bookkeeping work is required.
May need to set a max no of entries esp if 4) is in place, first come, first served
2) Anyone can vote, contender must vote lest they'll be disqualified.
3) The winner hosts next month contest (no need to hunt down hosts). If you are not prepared to do that if you win, don't enter.
4) (optional) All contestant must review all entries (this would open up for < 100 post users since they at least would have to review the contest entries)
If there is a way to set up some kind of poll for the voting things would run even smoother.
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Point 2 - as I speak it says 35 Guest Users online with only 5 members....there appears to be a lot interest in the site but very few who sign up (if i am reading it right) ....I'd let casual users/guests vote if a click poll can be organised - it sometimes feels a bit incestuous and cliquey at times on here - outside opinions of casual listeners are probably more relevant than everybody feeling they have to be nice about each others songs.
every where feels cliquey until you make the effort to join in & be a part of it...you cannot say we are not friendly here!! :)
its a good job people want to get realy involved here & make a community otherwise thered be no competitions for everyone :)
ive asked before about the big number of guests & been told its bots & spider things like google etc
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I've outlined this once before but I'll will give it another try (and of course, this is just my personal opinion)
My suggestion
1) Anyone can enter the comp (100 post rule but not needed if item 4 is included). Because of this the comp organizer will not have to bear the burden of short listing so only a small amount of bookkeeping work is required.
May need to set a max no of entries esp if 4) is in place, first come, first served
2) Anyone can vote, contender must vote lest they'll be disqualified.
3) The winner hosts next month contest (no need to hunt down hosts). If you are not prepared to do that if you win, don't enter.
4) (optional) All contestant must review all entries (this would open up for < 100 post users since they at least would have to review the contest entries)
If there is a way to set up some kind of poll for the voting things would run even smoother.
I like these suggestions, as well, Jambrains...............not so sure about compulsory hosting, however....(that would cut my chances of winning two of these contests, in a row, from zero to an ice cube's chance in Hades :-X ) ;D
Seriously, I'd like to keep hosting and posting a voluntary election.
I do like the 100 post, however.....keeps the fly-bys from corrupting the integrity of the spirit ;)
Just some thoughts.....
-T
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We haven't been inundated with offers from wannabe hosts, strangely enough...
so am I ok to take the reins for January SOTM?
If so, I shall make preparations...
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We haven't been inundated with offers from wannabe hosts, strangely enough...
so am I ok to take the reins for January SOTM?
If so, I shall make preparations...
Go for it Paul.
Are we using the same rules,the suggested rules,new rules,or just flying by the seat of one's pants? Next time I'm making my own rules and my entry will be voted top dog,no question. :D
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We haven't been inundated with offers from wannabe hosts, strangely enough...
so am I ok to take the reins for January SOTM?
If so, I shall make preparations...
Sorted!!
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I think I'll basically stick to the rules, bending them slightly perhaps if I think it's warranted.
Does that seem ok?
Ps yes! MFJ...I have replied :)
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well done paul for volunteering :)
im very disappointed no one who hasnt done it yet volunteered
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And I'll stand by for Feb though I expect we'll have a loads of volunteers by then
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Sounds like a plan ;D
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I'll do March
igg
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Yay! Planning ahead. I like that!
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So no change in how the comp is set up then??? :(
I'm asking very carefully and humbly, I just really thought that Ironknee and Jambrains had an interesting and fun sounding concept that's all.
What say you all?
:D
Peter
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what i got from it all Peter was people are vocal about what they want but i dont hear people being prepared to put in the work to make it happen
we have a system that works bcos some people are prepared to put in time & effort to ensure it runs smoothly...its all very well suggesting something new but im sure it will be the same few who make it come together...so im not very excited until some different people start saying they will get involved & help run things
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Can't speak for others but personally I'm not interested in running a comp with the current setup however I'd be more than happy to get involved with a different setup (and not necessarily the one I outlined).
The crux for me is the fact that the host nominates the entries. To me that is a very strange way to do business and even though I know the hosts spends an incredible amount of time selecting the songs to compete I still object to having just one person in the selection process. Why not let anyone who wants to compete enter and handle the potential problem with many entries in some another way? 100+ post requirement should prevent people registering just to throw a song into the competition.
I've been participating in contests at another forum (and I know a few other members from here have as well) and there are some 10-20 entries each time which I think is managable (and that forum has more than 3 times the number of members).
Actually I have another suggestion: lets give scores to every song and make the results public. I find it very interesting to see how people vote for the songs (anonymised by the host of course) esp how some songs have scores varying widely (love/hate) whereas others have consistently high score (everybody loves it) and some are consistently in the middle. I find that info much more valuable than the questionable honor of winning.
This is an example for one my songs (the lower score the better, 1-5). Think I ended up 6th or so but that did not matter much, what was valuable for me was the consistency in the score, no lower than 3.5 (average) so I did something right but no higher that 2.0 (very good) so it is still not the songs obviously.
The Harder We Hit (The More It Will Hurt) - Jambrains:
3.0 2.5 3.5 3.5 2.5 3.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 2.5 3.0 2.0 2.5 3.0 2.0 2.5 2.0
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Sorry to throw my oar into the ring, but I also think the 100 posts minimum is a bit elitist. It might seem fair to those who are established members of the forum, but as a relative newby I can vouch for the fact that there's not much incentive to participate in voting if you are automatically disqualified because you have not posted enough.
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Hey Micky, you're a very valuable contributor to the forum and have really embraced what it's all about. Trouble is there are a lot of "Here's my great new song for feedback" posts from people who couldn't make any effort into even reviewing one other song. Anyway you're nearly up to 100 now :)
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Don't be sorry. It's important for all the various opinions to be heard.
The 100 post minimum isn't meant to be elitist, although I can see how it might look that way. I've only been a member for a couple years (and only active for the past one year), so I haven't experienced everything that has happened in the past. I do know, however, that it isn't uncommon for a member to join, post one song, gather a bundle of reviews, and maybe never be heard from again. Or not much.
The theory is that a person who has at least 100 posts is probably making valuable contributions to the forum rather than just posting an occasional song to garner feedback. I am astonished by the number of members who have contributed almost nothing to the forum.
It would be interesting to analyze the numbers of posts from people and see if there is a natural level that might predict how valuable a member might be long-term. For instance, the number set right now is 100. Would 75 work? How about 50? My own opinion is that anyone has posted at least 50 times is probably providing feedback or other valuable postings to our forum life. People who have posted 50 times or more are in top 6.5% of the forum, in terms of number of posts. What if we made it a percentage? The top 10% or 5% or whatever. Just a crazy idea. Probably too hard to keep track of.
Vicki
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Why not just open a thread at the end of the month entitled SOTM...and people just state their favourite on the thread, if they feel so inclined. There's no pressure to do so.
Leave it open for a week.
We can see who votes and who doesn't, there are no nominations or PMs to worry about...and the votes are there for all to see.
Announce winner and close thread.
Any objections to me doing that this month and seeing what happens?
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Paul, sometimes the simplest ideas are the best. I personally think that would work. Its inclusive and easy. And if someone turns out to be a one hit wonder, wins and disappears into the night, have we really lost anything? That's part the nature of the industry we are in isn't it? :)
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There are a good few die hard members here so maybe a few of them could come together and each pick one or two songs and lyrics each month making up a total number of whatever they think is right and post them on the two thread LOTM & SOTM for all members to vote on regardless of rules but going by what each of them sees as active posters, other members as in active posters can then take their turn.
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Why not just open a thread at the end of the month entitled SOTM...and people just state their favourite on the thread, if they feel so inclined. There's no pressure to do so.
Leave it open for a week.
We can see who votes and who doesn't, there are no nominations or PMs to worry about...and the votes are there for all to see.
Announce winner and close thread.
Any objections to me doing that this month and seeing what happens?
This works for me.
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I think Paul's suggestion would work well, and as you're hosting go for it
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Sorry to throw my oar into the ring, but I also think the 100 posts minimum is a bit elitist. It might seem fair to those who are established members of the forum, but as a relative newby I can vouch for the fact that there's not much incentive to participate in voting if you are automatically disqualified because you have not posted enough.
When I hosted SOTM in the summer I bent the rules & picked a song by someone who had about 50 posts bcos I thought he was commited here... & of course people complained !
but I explained I was confident he was a good sort & it would be alright ,,,& of course what happened ,he didnt vote, didnt answer PMs & I had to disqualify him!
so the 100 post rule then began to make sense to me :)
I realy dont mind trying out a completely new type of competition as jambrains outlined but I would want to see more people who want change ,volunteer to help run it
I have no objection to paul using his own ideas for it when he runs it ...altho I think its gioing to be much harder to pick one song than the 3 we are used to
& I realy rather like voting privately bcos I dont want to upset people who might expect me to vote for their song :)
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Just winding my neck in...
I reckon some of the reason people are apprehensive about about hosting is the pressure of having to choose the nominations; all those great songs you have to miss out. If that is the case then sharing all the votes publicly will only alienate those same people from voting?
I just wonder whether LOTM will be a safer place to trail out some of these suggestions; I mean there are different challenges between the two (such as LOTM will presumably always have a lower engagement as Finished Songs vs Lyric board activity) but once momentum has raised it could be a good 'playground'.
Just some more food for thought.
All the best,
Scott.
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Why not just open a thread at the end of the month entitled SOTM...and people just state their favourite on the thread, if they feel so inclined. There's no pressure to do so.
Leave it open for a week.
We can see who votes and who doesn't, there are no nominations or PMs to worry about...and the votes are there for all to see.
Announce winner and close thread.
Any objections to me doing that this month and seeing what happens?
Here, here........I'm in
8)
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I reckon some of the reason people are apprehensive about about hosting is the pressure of having to choose the nominations; all those great songs you have to miss out. If that is the case then sharing all the votes publicly will only alienate those same people from voting?
When I hosted the comp back in September last year,this was one of the most difficult parts. I think there were around 25 - 30 songs that month and to narrow it down to a shortlist of just 5 was an onerous task,because the standard was high. Eventually I posted a shortlist of 8 songs and I remarked at the time,why not forget the shortlist and make all songs posted for the relevant month,valid entries? Folk can then choose their top 3 from all the songs.
Competitions by their very nature are divisive,regardless of 'being a bit of fun',all we can do is be adults and make them as fair as possible.
1. Keep the 100 posts minimum,though that actual number could be varied.
2. Whoever hosts the competition finds and posts up all the songs posted by 100+ members for the month.
3. Voters pick their top 3 songs either voting by pm or on a dedicated thread.
Forums always need new blood,because by their very nature folk come and go. I don't think the 100 post rule is elitist or exclusive,it just rules out professionals who register to promote their song,but have no intention of ever being part of the community. It makes sense to me.
Overall,I think new members get warmly included here,but I always wait to see if they are going to join in the community before I review any of their songs. When I came here at first I was straight in posting songs and had to be reminded of the forum rules. It happens to a lot of new people.
Just a suggestion. :)
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Skub's idea sounds like a good middle ground to me. I vote for that. :)
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Sticking my oar in this murky water ...
The trouble with putting songs from everyone that has +100 posts on the ballot is there would be 25-30 songs on the ticket. As much as I'd like to, some months I just don't have time to listen 30 songs (sorry :())
I think that's why the host's picks helps narrow it down - and changing the host regularly ensures any host bias/preference only lasts for one month. I think less ppl would vote if we make 'em listen to 30 songs and listening to them all is the only fair way to pick.
Maybe we could increase the host's short list to ten and try that?
Paul
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We need a referee. :D
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we need keith lemon to host it
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Nah no referee, no Lemon guy needed, just vote for me and I'll make the Songwriters Forum great again! ;D
'
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Nah no referee, no Lemon guy needed, just vote for me and I'll make the Songwriters Forum great again! ;D
'
;D ;D
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Nah no referee, no Lemon guy needed, just vote for me and I'll make the Songwriters Forum great again! ;D
'
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