[Morefrog Jones]

In the words of the Rolling Stones - Its The Singer Not The Song.

I have to be honest I think I have to agree

An average song can become great with good singer
A good song can be ruined by a bad singer.
A poor song becomes average with a good vocal performance.

In the terms of us amateur song writers - I find that many songs on this site are potentially as good as many heard on the radio but are ruined (including my own) by basically poor vocals and dont stand a chance of getting noticed - i've also noticed especially after entering and reviewing the winners of the UK songwriting contest that really poor songs but with good production and a half decent voice tend to do well.

So is it the singer not the song........ :)Discuss

[CaliaMoko]

I tend to agree; however, there is more to it than that. And I'm not sure what it is, but it seems to have something to do with how discriminating the listeners are. My opinion is, the general public is not very picky and they are easily influenced by things like the attitude of the singer, what they suspect the other listeners are thinking, how loud or quiet it (the music) is, and probably other factors as well.

I think I am very critical (but I try to be really nice when I'm providing feedback). We have "variety shows" occasionally where I live. More than once, someone--often a young person, still in school--will enter and many people will talk about how good s/he is. So I look forward to the performance, expecting an amazing rendition of something. I am pretty much always disappointed by an uncertain sounding voice that's having, possibly, a little bit of a hard time hitting the notes right on. Not terrible, but certainly not nearly as amazing as I've been led to believe.

So I think the general public just doesn't discriminate all that much. If someone has the gumption to get up and perform, they think it's amazing. I've noticed the same thing with recorded music. I had a singing group for awhile, and we made a CD. The CD is extremely bad, but many many people have told me--and I know at least some of them were sincere--that they liked it and thought it was really good. I just don't understand...how can people not hear any better than that?

Anyway, not 100% on topic, but related....

Vicki

[Jambrains]

Hmm... depends on your definition of a "good" singer. If we change "singer" to "artist" I totally agree. In my book Mick Jagger (or Cohen, Dylan etc,well, maybe not in my book but I know others disagree) is not a "good" singer but a great artist.
I doubt that a "good" singer would do e.g. Satisfaction justice....

I still have not quite recovered after stumbling over a YT video of Celine Dion and Anastacia doing AC/DCs You Shook Me All Night Long  . Both of them being "good" singers in my book but it did not do the song any good, quite the opposite.

[Morefrog Jones]

Hmm... depends on your definition of a "good" singer. If we change "singer" to "artist" I totally agree. In my book Mick Jagger (or Cohen, Dylan etc,well, maybe not in my book but I know others disagree) is not a "good" singer but a great artist.
I doubt that a "good" singer would do e.g. Satisfaction justice....

I still have not quite recovered after stumbling over a YT video of Celine Dion and Anastacia doing AC/DCs You Shook Me All Night Long  . Both of them being "good" singers in my book but it did not do the song any good, quite the opposite.

fair point - jagger not a great technical singer.

[PaulAds]

I think that people just somehow "buy into" certain individuals because they have an appeal that people find attractive and so that's what they go with. Might as well flip a coin...

There was something Napoleon said about wanting lucky generals rather than great generals.

Someone else said that a great singer is a songs best friend.

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Yes clearly the singer makes a big difference. I was going to post in the 'cover version' thread Al Green's version of the BEE Gees 'How Can You Mend A Broken Heart'.

For me Al's is the better one by miles. One of the greatest soul singers around. Of course the instrumentation is better too...they know what they're doing those fellows. But I suppose there might be someone around who prefers the BG version. Still the singer making the main difference.

But for some, not necessarily the better technical singer. I suppose Whitney Houston is(was) a 'better' singer than Dolly Parton but I prefer Dolly's version of 'I Will Always Love You' to the cover.

Mick may not be a 'great' singer but his voice sounds good and right for the songs.

[Morefrog Jones]

Yes clearly the singer makes a big difference. I was going to post in the 'cover version' thread Al Green's version of the BEE Gees 'How Can You Mend A Broken Heart'.

For me Al's is the better one by miles. One of the greatest soul singers around. Of course the instrumentation is better too...they know what they're doing those fellows. But I suppose there might be someone around who prefers the BG version. Still the singer making the main difference.

But for some, not necessarily the better technical singer. I suppose Whitney Houston is(was) a 'better' singer than Dolly Parton but I prefer Dolly's version of 'I Will Always Love You' to the cover.

Mick may not be a 'great' singer but his voice sounds good and right for the songs.

Al Green - now theres a singer!!!!- along with Levi Stubbs and Ottis Redding - they could literally make the telephone directory sound good.

[pompeyjazz]

Sure a good singer can make a huge difference but it's a lot to do with the particular song as well. There are some songs that no singer could make sound great  Then of course there's the production factor which I guess is a whole new subject all together which I think has been delved into before. On top of that there's the feel of the musicians playing on the track. I was watching a documentary on Elvis Costello the other day and he was doing some stuff with a Allen Toussaint. The vocalist and the trombone player (in fact all the musicians) just kicked ass so much it bought one of those ecstatic grins to my face 

[shadowfax]

forgot what I was gonna say

[Skub]

It's all about knowing how to carry a song. When you can do that your singing ability becomes much less of an issue. Pop/rock has many examples of less than stellar vocalists who still carry off the job with considerable panache.

Was that it Kev? 

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Anyway to continue because I never completed the thought....I got waylaid by the good singer/good technical singer thing.

The singer makes a world of difference but it's still the good songs that count. To continue with Al Green - I like listening to the album 'Let's Stay Together' because of that great voice in its prime and the band, a class act - Al Jackson Jr....The Memphis Horns...

...but the title track is still the stand-out song.

And that's why cover versions get made....because the song is good.

Forget those vocal coaching lessons.....write a good song.

[shadowfax]

Anyway to continue because I never completed the thought....I got waylaid by the good singer/good technical singer thing.

The singer makes a world of difference but it's still the good songs that count. To continue with Al Green - I like listening to the album 'Let's Stay Together' because of that great voice in its prime and the band, a class act - Al Jackson Jr....The Memphis Horns...

...but the title track is still the stand-out song.

And that's why cover versions get made....because the song is good.



Forget those vocal coaching lessons.....write a good song.

+1 on that my friend

[PaulAds]

Forget those vocal coaching lessons.....write a good song.

Who? Me? 

I'm trying!

[shadowfax]

Forget those vocal coaching lessons.....write a good song.

Who? Me? 

I'm trying!

you've already succeeded mate!!!

[PaulAds]

Ha ha...thanks!

Just being mischievous