[Moon]

Hi, guys

Sorry haven't been around much, moving house, trying to do some last minute recording etc.

Just wondering what you guys experience is / thoughts were about negative feedback re. your music, what you take from it, the best way to deal with it?

On musicxray they're offering free focus groups of 25 people... so I thought why not and asked for feedback about the song I posted here a while ago: http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/song-reviews/turn-on-the-light/

Well it was a bit like inviting people to stomp on your soul, there were a few decentish comments but tbh I feel a bit like I've been kicked in the balls with some of the negative ones... and I guess they're used to more commercially ready tracks / simply better quality ones because I think the majority of feedback was bad. Still in the middle of the stupid thing lol, can't cancel it so just bracing myself for each new comment...

Every aspect of my song was called amateurish by some people - piano playing, lyrics etc. One person said 'terrible vocals, I hate his voice'. As someone who's taken a long time to feel remotely confident singing, loves the piano to death and have spent a painstaking amount of time trying to get lyrics just right, comments like that are pretty much my worst nightmare.  I think I'm pretty good at being philosophical about general negative response / stuff like that... especially helped by having had some opposite reactions.... but these comments were so direct and harsh that they've left me with what feels like a rude awakening - like all the effort I've put in is worthless.... I do the music for me first and foremost but you hope that others might enjoy it and this kind of thing is really inhibitive when it comes to sharing it.... the idea that I shared it with some of my friends and family, for example, and they felt this way, even if they didn't say... it'd be terrible, like I was some deluded freak lol.

I understand where their opinions might come from, my own worst fears voiced, but I still know what I'm doing isn't completely valueless either...  It's really hard to be objective about your own music and sharing it with you guys, in such a supportive environment, maybe we're sheltered a bit from those who might dislike it.... possibly intensely!

Any advice on this kind of thing, anyone had similar experiences....?

[tone]

Hi Moon, thanks for posting.

I feel your pain - I am not good at dealing with negative feedback, either. But something you need to remember is this: music attracts people with massive egos because it's one of the few paths to fame and wealth in this world that's open to the average guy in the street.
A lot of people reviewing a song will be stuck in a competitive mindset rather than in one that's open to constructive criticism. If the people who left negative comments were unable to back them up with anything (eg. I hate it) then simply ignore them. If someone says "I hate it because the chords were the same all the way through and there was no definition between verse and chorus" then you have something to work with.
It's possible that your piano playing is not as good as people were expecting. It's possible that you have old or cheap equipment that just doesn't produce a high quality sound that people sometimes expect.
All of us have room for improvement, especially with regard to singing, but I would say don't let comments about it be a reason to take too big a knock. Anyone who's got the ability to be honest with themselves will know what their strengths and weaknesses are. If you've asked for criticism on your songwriting, and been given negative comments about your singing and piano playing, then that's not what you asked for.
It's one of the reasons I created this forum. I encourage people to be honest, but never rude. If you have an opinion about something you should be able to back it up with something that person can work with. The ego has no place around a community of creative folks like us.
Try to roll with the punches. Decide what criticism is just people being idiot, and what's a genuine reaction to something you need to improve.
If you want feedback on the feedback you've been given, I'm happy for you to create a post with the song and the comments you've received, and see what our members make of it.

Take heart my friend - you have my support

[Moon]

Thanks Tone, really helpful response, lots to think about... I don't think I could take making such a thread    I will of course carry on (such is the nature of this affliction) 

Cheers

[hofnerite]

That kind of focus group will have a clearly defined style that they are looking for, anothing else will be totally disregarded so don't feel down about that at all.

I agree with Tone, CONSTRUCTIVE critisism is essential to get the best out of anyone, whether they be a songwriter or bricklayer so I always take on board opinions if they are well argued. As Tone said, if these comments you have received cannot be backed up in a well argued way then I wouldn't read too deeply into them either. Anyone can say "that's crap" but it takes effort to be constructive so if they have not made the effort themselves then don't make the effort to digest those comments yourself!

[Moon]

Cheers Hofnerite, totally understand what you're saying.... I think rationally I can understand the whats and wherefores, viscerally it's hard not to let it affect you negatively rather than positively lol.... the good thing is that I can't help enjoying doing music and thankfully that would be very hard to change.

Despite part of me severely wishing I had never took them up on the offer... I think perhaps long-term I'll be able to learn from it in some way or other.

[Paul]

Hi Moon,

Sorry to hear about your experience.  As writers, we all have a voice. No matter how well or poorly we express ourselves, that expression should be treated with respect as the listener is priveleged to share our work . It takes courage to post your writing for people to read.  Unfortunately some people think its ok to be rude with their criticism. and find it so much easier to be so on the internet.  I'll bet that the same people wouldn't be so harsh in person.  It's imperative that criticism is constructive, offering genuine suggestions for improvement.  Forget about the harsh reviews that you have had. In a few weeks, you won't be hurting so much. Know that what you do is worthwhile.  The opinions that you have received are hardly likely to be from experts! If you believe in your work and enjoy what you do, then stick with it.  Don't let any negative criticism affect or devalue what you do! 

Best Wishes,

Paul

[Andy Price]

I always find that it is indicitave of someone who is not an artist and/or does not fully understand or comprehend creative works when they launch a tirade of hurtful abuse towards the creator. I am a big believer in constructive and helpful criticism. Indeed that is why I joined this forum and have applied to do a course in developing my musical skills, however yes it seems that scathing and personally offensive criticism has been popularised these days by the likes of Simon Cowell and the unfortunate mix up that has taken place between aspiring musical artists and reality television (which thrives upon creating drama and conflict) Some critical commentators seem to think unrelenting harshness is 'how the industry works'

For those not at all interested in 'the industry' and 'how you should sing/play/write' etc.. It takes a strong stomach to ride through this kind of abuse (which is what it is) but fundamentally if you hold firm to your creative ideals and bear in mind that the person who has attacked you has some kind of psychological reason for it - to score points or to get some kind of demented kick out of it - then you realise that most of the criticism comes from very shallow individuals

Real criticism comes from people who have an admiration for art and artistic people, those that don't need to look important or judgemental, those that can help rather than chastise. So Moon I'm sorry to hear about your experience but you need to be strong and remember that these people should not be given the time of day if they go beyond friendly helpful criticism and enter the realm of personal insults. They are to be avoided and pitied, wheras even the most amateur of aspiring creatives should be celebrated (not that I'm saying you are!)

[Andy Price]

PS - Just listened to Turn On The Light, I really enjoyed it! - rather different and quirky with some wonderful piano work which had a bluesey old-time vibe which put me in mind of old grainy cellulloid for some reason, lovely vocal work as well, very distinctive and blended well with the piano arrangement. I guess you could perhaps add a little more in terms of extra instrumentation if you wanted to evolve the song further. But all in all I found the piece representative of a very skilled individual writer/musician...

Just out of interest this musicxray 'focus group' - are they after something more mainstream pop perhaps? could explain their harshness... "Oh shit, real music!"

[Schavuitje]

I agree with Andy mate... Music X-ray are looking for a very limited scope of music. They are concerned with hits in the pop/r&b world with these days is the same thing. They are very blinkered when it comes to what they consider to be a good song. It all has to mathematically fit and that is the way in which they ultimately decide wether the song is any good or not. Music X-ray has a program that compares lots of different aspects of your song to songs that have already been hits and decides wether your song matches any of them closely enough to be worth attention. That tells me that they are looking for a quite specific formula and not anything new or ground-breaking.

Critique should be possitive and constructive. It's fine to point out details of someone's work that might need looking at or might need some attention. Fine to offer ideas even that may help a song in some way, but being pious and rude is just plain out of order.

I listened to Turn on The Light a while ago and loved it!

It's hard but I would ignore these ignorant people.

[tone]

This thread sums up why this forum is a one-off. You guys are the best!

[hofnerite]

I have just uploaded an old song of mine for the free focus group. I await some abuse! 

[Moon]

^ Aha... well I can now officially say take the 'less than encouraging' comments (if you even get any) with a pinch of salt    It's a good thing I held on with this thing rather than started ignoring it after all the rubbish comments... only had one review today but it went like this:

dude this song is awesome! love the vocals and the piano, they go together really well. might sound even better with a band backing you - or maybe just the last part of the song have a full  band come in. or at least some horns. anyway, keep it up, sounds awesome. for real. - my first five starer. That was such a well needed lift.

Also the fact that before this I felt that my vocals had improved since that recording... I'm glad to feel I'm still on the right track again.

The FG has kind of taught me that self-doubt based on others perceptions is only useful to an extent and that if you think you're going in the right direction, and you're fairly sure you're not crazy (?!?)... do trust yourself.

Just like it can only take one person saying they hate it for you to feel like throwing in the towel, it only took a review of one person who 'got it' to make the world right again (how fickle my confidence is lol). But seriously I think if I look at this objectively it was an especially useful learning experience - plenty of people will not get it... that's true for all music... while I would have honestly preferred to avoid the more scathing comments... it's a lesson because no doubt it will happen again and again in the future... I will still have doubts due to the severity of some of the comments... but I'll have to remember that some people did/do completely get it, that's all I need to know to feel it's worthwhile.

Thanks for the other comments guys, thanks Andy for taking a listen as well, really appreciate your great positive feedback, thanks so much and for everyone's philisophical insights.... I appreciated everything you said. Tone you're right this place is one in a million (should say infinity ;-) many thanks to you!

[Paul]

Hi Moon,

I've taken the precarious steps of hofnerite and set up a focus group for my song 'Release.'  i'm a little nervous of what might come back, but nothing was ever meant to be easy! 

Best,

Paul

[hofnerite]

I have got 16 back already. Mainly OK but an absolute classic I thought I'd share:

"I prefer Hiphop" - he gave the song 1 star!

  

Really helpful that!

[Paul]

Hi hofnerite,

what questions did you ask the focus group to answer?

Paul