[Winter1982]

Hi

So I am a singer-songwriter and I play in a small band (myself and a pianist, I sing and play guitar). We are about to take a set of around 10 original songs live and are currently finishing them off and refining what we have.

This song is my favourite. It is relatively new in the writing process but I feel quite strongly about it and it has gone straight into our live set. We are keen to record soon and I have high hopes for this song making it (in a more complete form) onto an EP of 3 or 4 songs.

It would be great to receive  feedback on the song, the lyrics in particular and also my voice, as I have battles with myself as to how to perform the songs and whether or not to sing at all. I am my own worst critic I suppose. Personally I feel that the chorus (of sorts) returns one too many times but let's see what you all think.  Thanks for listening in advance and sorry for the poor quality. We have no money to record well until we book studio time so this is simply a phone recording job. Thanks

Speak loud, keep your voice down
Hard luck, keep your spirits up
Speak loud, keep your voice down
Hard luck, hard luck

Don't know where you come from
Don't know where you go
Can't explain the driving rain
Or freezing winter snow
Keep walking south, until you see the sun
It's warmer when you're near and it's colder when you're gone
Freezing breath at early dawn til shudders in the night
Broken path through nettles, torn
In search of morning light
Weighed down by the things you've said and done
It's warmer when you're near and it's colder when you're gone

Speak loud, keep your voice down
Hard luck, keep your spirits up
Speak loud, keep your voice down
Hard luck, hard luck

If you can feel it, standing in the sun
A sliver of light, you are the lucky one
The days are getting shorter, the evening comes to soon
So make love and dance in the warmth of the afternoon

Speak loud, keep your voice down
Hard luck , keep your spirits up
Speak loud, they won't hear you now
So far down

So far down

It's warmer when you're near  and it's colder when you're gone
It's warmer when you are near and it's colder when you're gone.

[tokenangmoh]

Hello and welcome!

I love the chord progressions and mood you've got here, and I found myself singing along very quickly.

I think the intro is far too long at 16 bars. I think it's hard to sustain interest with just the fingerpicking pattern on the acoustic guitar, so personally I'd go for 4 bars  - or even just start without an intro. I can see how 8 bars could work with a fuller arrangement, but I think you'd need some amazing production to get away with 16 - and even then, an intro that long tends to signal "album track" to me.

I like the repetition and contradictions in the chorus. It adds up to something catchy and makes it clear the song is about some kind of struggle.

But in the verses, I'm a bit unclear about what's going on. The main issue for me is who the song is addressing. It seems like the persona of the song is addressing himself, telling himself to keep going. But because you introduce a second person, "you", it often seems like the persona is telling the "you" to keep going. So it all gets a bit confusing. As an example, in these lines

Keep walking south, until you see the sun
It's warmer when you're near and it's colder when you're gone

it's really tricky to work out who is being addressed.

Can I suggest you change the "you"s to "she"s? That should then make it clear that the persona of the song is talking to himself, not someone else. Admittedly, this will screw up your rhyming in places...

Having said all that, the lyrics create exactly the right feel, and I especially like the line

It's warmer when you're near and it's colder when you're gone

and how it fits in with the song's imagery.

You should definitely keep singing - you have a great voice! My only issue is that (and I may well be wrong) it sounds a bit like you're trying too hard to sing with a certain style, almost like you're using someone else's voice. I don't want to use the word "affected", because it's far too strong, and you sound great - but it's the word that's closest to what I mean. The part where I felt this most strongly is when you take a breath before "gone" in "colder when you're gone". It feels there like you're sacrificing the clarity of what you want to say for an idea of how you want it to sound. If you can trust in what you want to say with this song and leave your delivery to its own devices, I think you'll sound fantastic.

I've come across as very negative on the vocal, but I don't mean to be. You sing really well, with excellent timbre and expressiveness.

I'm actually fine with the chorus appearing as many times as it does; it sounds right.

Overall, you've got a great song here and I look forward to seeing how it develops.

Matt

[onemanband]

Hello winter,

I really enjoyed the song, you should certaintly sing it. At the moment your voice has zero production on it and it probably sounds weird to you, what do yo use to record? is it audacity?

I would suggest you cut the chorus at the start, I think you give everything away too soon and it makes it fall a bit flat because of it. But when the chorus hits the second time after the flow of the verse, it has a much bigger impact, in my opinion that is where the listener should hear it first.

I liked the lyrics I thought you had some nice imagery weaved into the odd common turn of phrase, worked well for me.

Good work!!!

[hardtwistmusic]

Just made my first listen.  I often have to listen twice to form any real opinions or offer suggestions.  I love this kind of simple (just a singer and a guitar) songs.  I can't really perform them, but I love spare, simple songs. 

I'm not musician enough to know anything about the chord progressions, but I know I like the sound of this. 

[Winter1982]

Fantastic feedback from everyone so far, thanks so much, very useful stuff.

Matt,I agree about the intro. It does have a piano arrangement planned to go with it and I'm hoping it may give the song time to grab a live audiences attention before it really starts but I totally agree, on any kind of recording that would be too long , if necessary at all.

I also agree with the problems with who is being addressed. I found it problematic - I didn't want to be too gender specific cand didn't want to imply a romantic relationship specifically but it has left it with a number of 'yous' that does get confusing. I'll decide which ones to sacrifice for clarity.

I get what you mean too about the sound of some of the words, like 'gone'. It sounds slightly odd to me too but I find I have to twist and round some sounds in words to stop them going flat when I sing them and give them some warmth.  Thanks so much for all this feedback, really really appreciate it.


Onemanband -  I keep going backward and forward with this one. That first chorus is there because I like the way it dies suddenly and turns into the picking of the verse. But then, with the chorus there I felt I needed an intro rather than just leaping into the chorus and then suddenly there are 16 bars before anything happens haha. When I cut that first chorus it feels like the meat of the song is over too soon, like the verse is exhausted in the first 40 seconds of the song and then there's only a little bridge worth of lyrics to come back to between a couple of choruses. Very confusing, like a weird puzzle! But part of me really agrees with you and I keep jumping back and forth between options.

Hardtwistmusic , thanks for listening. It's great that the song has made an impact and that you like the sound of it. Thanks for listening!

Thanks all so far.

[Jeremy]

Hi Winter,
The song has a nice warm sound and overall feel to it. There's a lot to like here and I'm sure it will hit when doing it live.

Using rondeau format is not very common in this style. It is sort of 'giving away the clue before you told the joke'. I think the song would benefit from a more natural build up, going from the lower tone of the verse to the more lifted of the chorus. So in that respect I agree with Matt and changing the form getting rid of the first chorus may be a good idea.

I also thought the instrumentals in between verses and chorus feel a little bit too long. I would suggest to save that up for a solo, or maybe two, together with your pianist. If you play that over your verse progression, there's your additional meat: one extra verse.

I'm not sure if this is on purpose, but there seems to be a bit of overdrive on your guitar. For this song it might be better to keep it clean.

About the person you are adressing in the song: I'm not bothered at all  by your use of 'you'. I think it can be interpreted in many different ways is a very strong aspect of your lyrics. Particularly the line warmer/near, colder/gone, which, when put after 'walking south' can be interpreted in two ways...very poetic.
The 'so far down' part has a great atmosphere to it, building up tension to the final.

Love to see how this develps.
Cheers,
Jeremy




 

[Winter1982]

Cheers Jeremy, really appreciate your feedback, lots to work with

[jonlint]

Catchy tune - you get the hook at the beginning which is nice.  Nice rhythm in the singing too!

Hard to comment further without the whole song mix, but you have something for sure!

Rock on!

[little feet]

hi winter. I've had another couple of listens to this and i really like it. the suggestions you've already had are spot on.

in terms of the lyric it's difficult to know who's talking to who, that said the words you use are really poetic and emotive.. a clarification of who's being sung to might help.. the chorus is spot on though. there are hints of daughter in the lyrics and i think that is what you're aiming for..

the picking pattern is really nice and the change to the chorus strum is nice.. maybe fleshing out the chorus strum a bit after the simplified intro of it might work.. something to try maybe.

somebody mentioned the vocals already.. they used the word timbre.. i love that word. you have a very cool sounding voice.. a bit gravelly and very sensitive and tuneful. I agree that it sounds too affected.. like you're trying to sing in a certain style..

what i'd suggest is trying to emote MORE whilst singing this to yourself.. to the point of being over the top.. if there's pain show it.. if there's regret.. if there's fear.. show it.. to yourself.. get your teeth into it and the content will offer itself to the vocal style, not the other way around. lose yourself in your creation.. it helps with the performance of it. not just using your voice but your whole body.. i do this alot with songs.. trying to overdo it to find the edges of where i can take the melody and the performance of it.

ofcourse understated is just as valuable so..

anyway it's really catchy this and hints at alot of brooding emotion.. I'm sorry i can't be more helpful.. i'm not very good at reading into peoples lyrics and often missinterpret them.

[Winter1982]

Hey all, thanks for the continued feedback.

Little feet, I agree about the ambiguity of 'you'. I try not to be gender or relationship specific when writing so I need to figure out how to make it less confusing but still as broadly applicable, roughly about love, loss etc.

I'm glad my voice seems to be up to the job. It is worrying that people mention my voice sounds too affected. It must be an issue as it keeps coming up in feedback so I won't dismiss it. I'm not sure how to sing any other way. I tend to twist and round vowel sounds and certain words to give them warmth or stop them going flat. It isn't as conscious as that , it tends to be how it comes out when I write, not something I add on later after singing it a few times. Does it sound like too much of an accent perhaps? Or too many extended words? Should I perhaps flatten the performance a little?

Little feet I really like the idea of pushing the performance to its boundaries to learn more about the way I could perform it. I will definitely try that. I like the idea of finding limits and taking it too far just to really get to know the song and my own voice.

Thanks again for all your feedback, finding it very helpful indeed!

[tokenangmoh]

Hi again Winter.

Your voice is not short of warmth and does not seem to be in danger of going flat. I suspect you're just not trusting it enough. I think little feet's suggestion of going with the emotion is right. Try concentrating on feeling and content, and don't let yourself think about the quality of the sound.

Even if this makes you end up cold and flat (and I don't think for a moment that it will), if you keep concentrating on feeling and content, you'll eventually adjust and find a way to fix the problems. But the way you're fixing these (possibly non-existent) problems right now just sounds a little jarring to me.

I used to have a similar thing where I focused on the quality of my vibrato rather than what I was singing. It made my performances seem sterile and disconnected. It took me a while to stop thinking about vibrato and focus on the song - but it was a really positive step. And oddly enough my use of vibrato improved too.

Matt

[Winter1982]

Thanks Matt
I'll give those things a go for sure. If nothing changes then I guess the slightly jarring over affected thing may just be my voice haha. Thanks all for your continued feedback! Very much appreciated. We are going to try and record a proper demo of this soon so I will post it up and see what you all think!

[adamholden]

Hi. I like this and would echo much of useful comments already made. Your voice is clear and expressive. Just go for it a bit more (more air, but not necessarily more volume). There's not enough in the guitar links to keep interest and so without a hook or riff it just deflates the sense of energy and tension.

The rest of music works really well. The lyrics don't do anything for me, though. They don't add very much even as sounds to sing. The colder/warmer line is good. You might have gone with but it's colder, but using and makes it more matter of fact. The rest of it needs to be more specific and believable. But you can certainly develop the cold/warm thing.

Thanks for sharing

Adam

[Winter1982]

Hi Adam , thanks for your feedback. I'll take those things on board. Interesting to get that feedback lyrically. I was quite comfortable with the lyrics personally. I like ambiguity rather than being specific about things. It is also interesting that you feel it needs to be more believable , I'll take that on board and think about why that might come across.

[orten]

I like the lyrics, a nice (dylanish) combination of straightforward and enigmatic and some lovely imagery. I feel you are very close to finding your singing style. When you let go, it's great, cool and very individual. Like the tune and chorus, it fits well with the lyrics, but I feel the accompaniment needs some variation. I'm sorry I can't be more specific but I'm very new at songwriing.