[Sing4me88]

Okay.... so after brushing up on a little theory (generous provided on here by Boydie following the podcast and from one or two other sources) I've set myself the task of composing/writing something vaguely resembling a 'song' from scratch (and then try to get a muso to tweak/rescue/repair the Frankenstein I've created!) and start the slow process of trying to become a 'songwriter' rather than a #lyricist' I'm not hugely fussed on the pedantics of production for the time being (though it is on my list!) as I want to get the song-writing basics like rhythm, melody, hook, toplining etc write before learning how to dress it up in shiny and attractive packaging (in fact I'll probably always rely on collabing with someone with far better production skills!)

Anyway I've started to move away from the boring predictable mechanistic style of using perfect note lengths and have a feel for getting some nice groove into a drum beat. This suits what I'm after in terms of the style of song I'm going for. I've locked in a bass riff that's also catchy- in fact it's locked into the exact bass drum beat. This has given it some oomph though I'll obviously change drum beat and bass riff and the inter-lockedness for the pre and the chorus. At the minute I'm using a recurring bass riff for the whole verse. The bass riff has only 3 notes; E3, CE, A2. Is this likely to impede me when it comes to trying to lay chords on the 'song' - btw I intend doing this last after melody and vocal topline are written. If so is it advisable to change bass line every 4 beats onto something that might fit other chords?

At the moment what I have is nice and catchy but I don't want the bass and drum beat to restrict the melody and chords to a single chord or two!

[Boydie]

The short answer is NO - it won't impede your song development at all

It might actually help you with the direction the song should take

I tend to loosely "classify" songs as I write them, which can help me decide how best to develop them to support "the song" - rather than trying to "showcase" every aspect of the playing, production etc.

What you a describing is a "groove" or "riff" based song - so my immediate thought would be to use this riff as the base of your song and then just have one really contrasting section to break it up every now and again - a good example is "Seven Nation Army" the White Stripes - although there are many many other examples

It is difficult to say without hearing it but the key (IMHO) of getting the kick and bass "locked in" is to not necessarily have them always hitting at the same time but to consider 2 things:

1 - have them hit at the same time to provide the emphasis of the groove - eg it is likely your bassline will have more notes in it than your kick pattern so choose to combine the hits to really nail the groove

2 - when they do hit together MAKE SURE THEY DO ACTUALLY HIT TOGETHER! - if you "play in" any parts you are very likely to not play exactly in time, so you notes are likely to not be exactly "on the beat", which is a what provides your song the groove

so - if you play your kick drum slightly late (or behind the beat) make sure your bass note is also slightly behind the beat

It is always best to do this "by ear" but most DAWs allow you to either line things up "by eye" (although you need to ensure you line up the right transients) or you can actually see the exact timing of the beats in numbers and use this to line things up


I tend to have my first beat of the bar (or the first beat of a 4 or 8 bar loop) bang on the beat to ensure the rhythm doesn't drift too much


These are not "rules" but just some things I personally consider

If you want a hand putting your song together drop me a PM - I would be happy for it to be "your" song but I could suggest some different approaches for you to use/choose rather than a normal "collab"

Eg you would do all the "writing" but I would be happy to point out different ideas to guide you through it 

[Sing4me88]

Hey Boydie - thanks once again for sharing your wisdom and for the kind offer to help me cut my writing teeth on this one.

Now that I'm armed with a little theory (and I really mean a little!) what you say makes a while lot more sense to me. I've found a beautiful tension between theory and creative practice that can actually enhance as much as it frustrates one another- as you always pointed out (and which I for ages failed to grasp the magnitude of) sticking to strict theory and note length won't necessarily create a commercial or great song but at the same time getting the underlying theory to rhythm, chords, melody, hook etc can help creativity - especially when it comes to tweaking a 'rough diamond'.

I've listened to the drum and bass riff locked in a few times and I think there's good groove in it but it's still a very diamond in rough that needs tweaked etc. The drums could probably also benefit from a bit of 'dressing up' with ride bell or cymbal to keep them fresh.

I'll bite your hand for a co-write on this. Still very basic at the minute but when I get something a little more polished and that I'm happy with I'll send on to you if you are still cool with that? I'm taking an incremental approach; start with a bass and drum groove, then move onto to a funky guitar riff, then topline vocal and then see about chords before trying to dress it up. It's actually a rewrite of the old one 'Nice guys' from a few years back - not that there was necessarily anything wrong with the job my then co-write did on the lyric. With a little more music theory under my belt however I'm trying to cut my teeth by re-writing it in line with what I had in mind- going for a funk meets retro Pop vibe to it.

I imagine its a hugely frustrating process but I bet it's enjoyable all the same!

[Boydie]

I was up for a collab before you mentioned basing it on a funky guitar riff - I am definitely up for it now!!!! - any excuse to get fonky!

Drop me a PM and we can get it going