[tokenangmoh]

Hello lovely people.

It's rare that I write a lyric that doesn't belong in a some theatre project I'm involved in, but this occurred to me as I was going to bed and it kept me awake. So it looks like joining this forum is inspiring me! (And losing me sleep.)

All comments welcome.

***

Loving Him and Hating Me

He swears to God he loves me with his fingers crossed.
He laughs 'cos he thinks I can't see.
But what can I do?
That's just the cost
Of loving him and hating me.

He promises he's faithful and he smiles so nice
At the waitress who brings us our tea.  
But what can I do?
That's just the price
Of loving him and hating me.

And my friends say that I could do better,
But they don't know me, know how little I'm worth.
They say make a plan,
Get a better man...
But the mirror knows me,
And the mirror shows me
I'm the luckiest girl on Earth.

He whispers that I'm pretty and my stomach aches
From his lies about what's plain to see.
But what can I do?
Those are just the breaks
Of loving him and hating me.
Of loving him and hating me.

© Matt Lyon, all rights reserved.

***

Above is the version edited to incorporate seriousfun, diademgrove and caco's feedback. Thanks, guys!

Below is the original.

***

He swears to God he loves me with his fingers crossed.
I have to pretend not to see.
But what can I do?
That's just the cost
Of loving him and hating me.

He tells me that he's faithful and he smiles so nice
At the waitress who brings us our tea.  
But what can I do?
That's just the price
Of loving him and hating me.

And my friends tell me I could do better,
But they don't know how little I'm worth.
They say set a plan,
Get a better man...
But they don’t know me;
The mirror knows me,
And it shows me
I'm the luckiest girl on Earth.

He whispers that I'm pretty and my stomach aches
From his lies about what's plain to see.
But what can I do?
Those are just the breaks
Of loving him and hating me.
Of loving him and hating me.

[Kevin j]

i like it it's got a nice refreshing rhyming scheme, and i got a nice flow off of it...

my only advice would be to take out the word 'and' nd 'with' in the start of the verses. it makes it a nicer read, for me. this is unless you have a melody or music that fits it better with these words in it,

hope i helped

[tokenangmoh]

Thanks Kevin.

I see your point. I'd be fine with or without those linking words, depending on the music. (I don't have a melody in mind at the moment...)

[seriousfun]

Hi Matt,

You have approached this from a new and refreshing angle and that has drawn me straight into the story. The repetition of the questioning line successfully reminds the listener of the storyline as the does the great hook line.

I did find one of the supporting lines a little clunky. What it says is good but i think it could do with a little refining to make it flow better when singing. I refer to..

I have to pretend not to see.
 
In this line i find the words "I have to...." a little more suited to storybook writing rather that the more poetic lyrical structure. I think with a little thought you could put something much more poetic or at least succinct in there.

Its a terrific lyric with a strong message reinforced by the repition of a few key lines. Good post

Allan.

[tokenangmoh]

Hi Allan.

You're right: that line has two unnecessary words.

The first thing I thought of was "I smile and pretend I can't see." But I've used smile pretty irreplaceably in the next verse, so that's not a goer.

Then I thought of "I die, then pretend I can't see." That's nice because of the pain, but it sounds to me like her near-death experience has caused her to feign permanent blindness...

I'm going to go for "He laughs 'cos he thinks I can't see." I like this because on the surface it makes him crueller, but it also better supports the possibility that everything is in her mind: actually he loves her, and he's just making a joke, but she won't let herself believe she's worth loving.

So thanks very much, that was very helpful!

[diademgrove]

Hi Matt,

I like the lyrics and think they work really well. The only line that sticks out for him is "They say set a plan". To me it doesn't read right. I know it follows the rhyming scheme and makes sense, but its a bit clunky. I think her friends would say dump him, get a better man, but it wouldn't rhyme.

The closest I got was flush him down the pan, which fits but you lose the they say, so I can see why you went with the words you did.

If I come up with something that fits I'll post it. Sorry for the criticism and not offering a solution.

Feel free to ignore what I've written if you disagree.

diadem

[tokenangmoh]

Hi diadem.

I think you're right. "Set a plan" is not quite idiomatic, is it?

I think I'll change it to "Get a plan". There's a "get" in the vicinity already, which I think is why I didn't go for it originally... but it still rhymes with the "bet" of better, and at least it's idiomatic.

Thanks very much!

[montydog]

I've just read the modified version and I think it's great. The others have given you some really good feedback which you've taken on board. I thought this was written by a woman until I saw your name at the bottom - you have done well to write from that perspective. This is crying out for music to make an awesome song. Very good writing.

[tokenangmoh]

Thanks Monty!

Realistically, I'm not going to get around to adding music to this for ages. I've got about 10 other songs to finish before then, and I work slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. (Apart from lyrics - I'm pretty snappy with lyrics.) So if anyone wants to give it a go with some music, they are more than welcome!

[PeeJay]

Hi Matt,

This is a good. Liked the title too.

Each part is a little vignette that moves the story along and brings it to life.

The relationship seems one sided. She’s needy and one wonders what he’s getting from the situation. Maybe he’s a control freak.  It’s not going to last!

Nice one,

Phil.

[beckylucythomas]

Oooooooh i wanna shake that girl (if only it weren't just a little too close to home   )

This is really clever writing, very succinct, but does a really great job of sketching out a really intriguing picture of someone's state of mind.

I have a little suggestion for the middle section... Just an idea, but i thought "but they can't see // that the mirror tells me // that I'm the luckiest girl on earth" ... I think it might support your structure/metre better, and also enhances the idea of this being possibly in her head.

Probably "make a plan" would sound more natural than "get" but in terms of the sound, i like the repetition of "get".

I like the changes you've made at others' suggestions. I would have liked "i smile and pretend" as that would have more obviously supported the idea that it's in her head and focuses more directly on her state of mind, but then when you explained your thinking, i liked that looking at what he's (maybe) up to too adds an ambiguity that i think is a real asset.

I love the use of a very simple repeating structure with a subtly shifting meaning. Really clever writing!

[hardtwistmusic]

Hello lovely people.

It's rare that I write a lyric that doesn't belong in a some theatre project I'm involved in, but this occurred to me as I was going to bed and it kept me awake. So it looks like joining this forum is inspiring me! (And losing me sleep.)

All comments welcome.

***

Loving Him and Hating Me

He swears to God he loves me with his fingers crossed.
He laughs 'cos he thinks I can't see.
But what can I do?
That's just the cost
Of loving him and hating me.

He promises he's faithful and he smiles so nice
At the waitress who brings us our tea.  
But what can I do?
That's just the price
Of loving him and hating me.

And my friends tell me I could do better,
But they can't see how little I'm worth.
They say get a plan,
Get a better man,
But they don't know me;
The mirror knows me;
And it shows me
I'm the luckiest girl on Earth.

He whispers that I'm pretty and my stomach aches
From his lies about what's plain to see.
But what can I do?
Those are just the breaks
Of loving him and hating me.
Of loving him and hating me.

© Matt Lyon, all rights reserved.

Note: edited to incorporate seriousfun and diademgrove's feedback, below. Thanks, guys!

Marvelous insgights into a fearful, insecure mind.  Frighteningly real.  Very good lyric imo.

[tokenangmoh]

Thanks everyone!

I am so glad I joined this forum! Nice people! Who knew such creatures existed?

More specifically, thanks very much, caco.

You're right that "I smile and pretend I can't see" is the best of the options on its own terms. I am very tempted to put it back in... But whereas in Tinder Box, the amazing song of yours I commented on, you use the repetition of individual words to build up texture and mood, I haven't given myself much space to do that here. When I read the lyrics with the first "smile" line in, the second "smile" at the start of verse two seems accidental. (I have repetition of whole lines, but that's a different thing, of course.)

I think I will change "get" to "make". I am too addicted to rhyme. I need to wean myself off. This is a pitfall of loving musicals.

I know what you mean about the structure of the middle section. For all that I said I need to wean myself off rhyme, it'll have to be baby steps, because I want to keep the "know me / knows me / shows me" feminine rhyme here. But the section structure does seem odd. I think it's because there are only three of those short lines, which is musically counter-intuitive. Doable, but certainly counter-intuitive. Your solution sidesteps that as well as better connecting the friends, the mirror and the girl's state of mind. So it is very good. BUT IT ONLY RHYMES ON THE SECOND SYLLABLE OF A FEMININE RHYME!

(The rhyme-rage has returned. I will have a sit down.)

The reason I included the "But they don't know me" line, which throws the structure off, is that it felt too abrupt to go straight into "The mirror knows me" - it seemed apropos of nothing. But if I introduce the word "know" earlier, and try to make some word-repetition work for me in this section, that might do the trick. How about:

And my friends say that I could do better,
But they don't know me, know how little I'm worth.
They say make a plan,
Get a better man...
But the mirror knows me,
And the mirror shows me
I'm the luckiest girl on Earth.

The second line gets lengthened here, but whenever I sang the original line in my head, I had to drag out the second syllable of "little" to fill the bar, so I think it can take the two extra words.

I think that makes it better, though I suspect I'm approaching the stage of overthinking where I can't tell any more...

Anyway, thanks for your help, caco!

[beckylucythomas]

I hadn't heard of the term "feminine rhyme"..... I love how much you can learn here!

You are addicted to rhyme aren't you!!... Haha. Nowt wrong with that! I guess that when you put it to music you'll know at that point which is most important and which can be sacrificed, the rhyme or the reason or the rhythm.....or maybe you'll find a way to get perfection and have it all!

[Jess]

I absolutely fell in love with these lyrics, which is why when I realised there was an edited version I was like 'oh' and I'm afraid I prefer the original...I'm sorry I know you've spent time reworking it, but I had a really strong emotional connection with those lyrics, they provoked a lot of thought and sadness, but they were so good. But, then again, I don't know if I prefer the first version because I read it first, maybe if I'd of read the edit first, I would prefer that? I don't know, but I loved this, one of the best pieces I've ever read on here...it really touched me...so I may have to screenshot it and save it as my background for a while