[Paulski]

OK - there are no stupid questions - right? 

My question is - what are loops good for? I see ppl posting where to get them cheap and since they are 4 GB plus in size they must be incredibly useful - but how? One site I looked at said that they are prerecorded backing tracks of entire songs. Why on earth would you want to record the same song that everyone else has with presumably different melody/vocals? And are they wav files or midi? If wav (I'm guessing because of size) then it must be a pain in the @ss to modify/tailor them, no?
I'm missing sth I just know it, I mean I don't know it. Help me understand, please!

Paul

[diademgrove]

Like you Paul I have no idea what loops are or how to use them.

Although reggae has a tradition of making good use of backing tracks to produce different sounding songs, so you may not end up with everything sounding the same.

I found this on youtube which may help

Keith

[pompeyjazz]

I use drum and synth loops sometimes. They are generally wav files that you can drop in at the same tempo as your song. Cut and paste etc. I've also used some sax and brass loops sometimes cutting and pitch shifting individual notes and then glueing them all together. I've had great fun with them.

[Paulski]

Like you Paul I have no idea what loops are or how to use them.

Although reggae has a tradition of making good use of backing tracks to produce different sounding songs, so you may not end up with everything sounding the same.

I found this on youtube which may help

Keith

I'll have a look - thanks Keith!

[Paulski]

I use drum and synth loops sometimes. They are generally wav files that you can drop in at the same tempo as your song. Cut and paste etc. I've also used some sax and brass loops sometimes cutting and pitch shifting individual notes and then glueing them all together. I've had great fun with them.

How can they be the same tempo - do they come in various tempos, or does your DAW have to beat map them somehow? Sax and brass eh? Now that sounds useful...

[tone]

It depends - apple loops are beat mapped by logic (and maybe garageband - I dunno cos I don't use it) so you can find the little snippets of music you want to use, paste them into your song, and they'll auto adjust to your tempo. It's pretty cool! Some others are simply wav files you paste into your song, and then you'll have to be working at the same tempo as the loop, yes.

You'll find most fully-fledged DAWs have libraries full of loops that will auto-adjust to tempo though.

[Paulski]

It depends - apple loops are beat mapped by logic (and maybe garageband - I dunno cos I don't use it) so you can find the little snippets of music you want to use, paste them into your song, and they'll auto adjust to your tempo. It's pretty cool! Some others are simply wav files you paste into your song, and then you'll have to be working at the same tempo as the loop, yes.

You'll find most fully-fledged DAWs have libraries full of loops that will auto-adjust to tempo though.

Thanks Tone - yeah I guess AcidPro probably does the same. I have used steve slate drum loops but they're all midi - so no prob with tempo. Biggest issue for me is finding the time to listen to an endless supply of loops to find the one I need. At least with midi, you can customize them, remove notes etc.

[pompeyjazz]

Hi Paul,

Basically When you import the loop as a media file it will ask you if you want to import as same tempo as song (which of course you do !!!)

Just an example (unfinished) song using some free sax and drum loops......

https://soundcloud.com/pompeyjazz/special-kind-of-blue

John

[pompeyjazz]

It does take a lot of messing about though 

[Boydie]

Loops can be great fun and provide inspiration

There are different types of loops - the most popular formats are plain WAV files, ACIDIZED & APPLE LOOP files, REX files and MIDI files

Acidized clips are already programmed to match the tempo of your project so you should just be able to drag them in and you are done

Others may need to be dragged in and then "groove clipped" to get them following tempo of the DAW

If you change a clip (eg stretch it to fit the tempo) then the quality of the clip may sound weird and/or "lot fi". Some DAWs use a low quality "live preview" algorithm to play back the loop

To hear the best quality you need to use an "offline rendering algorithm" - the easiest way to do this is to "bounce clip"

There is also a format call "REX" which also contains some loop information but in a different way than ACID loops - rather than "stretching" the audio a REX file slices up the audio at the transients and then plays it back - so their tolerance to speeding up/slowing down is better (as there is no stretching) but on less percussive sounds it may sound a bit odd due to the lack of transients


Loops can also be told to play at different pitches by adding change markers in your DAW

I had a play with some loops and this tracks is solely loops from different places that I put together:
https://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic/loopy-groove

When you get used to using the, you can really "slice & dice" them up and put them together to create unique pieces - I remember Viscount Kramer creating a fantastic sax solo in a track by cutting up loops and putting them back together again

It is definitely a tool worth having a play with

[tina m]

i think theyre for musicians who cant play a instrument  which is of course the modern way
particularly with dance & rap & modern pop etc
i know people who do this & theyre realy clever the way they cut up loops & mangle them to make new sounds & then assemble them with beats ...it is very creative & modern but the thing is they spend hours  just tweaking sounds & making them fit
but thats modern culture isnt it ...they just love sitting in front of a computer screen...
buttons are definitely the new guitar strings!

[hardtwistmusic]

I understand what they are, and how they could be useful.  I don't use them.  For one thing, whenever I have tried to integrate two pieces of music together I felt two things (felt, not thought. . . there is a difference.) 

1.  I "felt like" it wasn't really my song. 
2.  I "felt like" it wasn't worth the effort aligning the loops when I could just do something original (albeit not as technically accomplished.) 

Graham Bradford provided some guitar tracks for me to put together for my song "The Ballad of Geronimo Varushnakov.  They were essentially "original loops."  (although each was for the full song, and did not loop.)  All I had to do was put them together in pleasing combinations.  It was the hardest thing I've done musically.  Well worth the effort in that case (and I've been remiss in not posting the resulting song. . . just haven't gotten around to recording it well enough to post). 

BUT. . . if it was not original work, I would NOT have found it worthwhile.  It was Graham's artistry and originality that made it worth the work. . . not any "ease of use" or anything. 

If mixing and production are your thing, (and therefore you love the technical challenge of adjusting and piecing things together on the screen and through your ear) then I think loops and beats would be a wonderful thing for you. 

I just don't consider it to be "songwriting" for me (and for me only.)  Everyone else can make their own choices which are just as valid as my own.  For me. . . I don't find them satisfying.

[Paulski]

@pompey and @Boydie

Thanks for the links - I'll check 'em out.
And thanks Boydie for the extra info.
My biggest reservation is wading though an ocean of loops looking for sth that fits my song.
I guess they'd be better for "generic" songs created from the loops themselves 

I'm sort of in Verlon and Tina's camp - want to keep things original as possible..

cheers all
Paul