Effective use of distortion

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Doodles

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« on: November 04, 2015, 12:22:25 PM »
Listening to bands like the Smashing Pumpkins, they seem to be able to just flick a switch and transform mellow ringing guitar into really punchy distrortion that takes a track to a new level.

I have a Big Muff (the pedal  ::)), but when I record anything with distortion it sounds awful... and i mean AWFUL. Is there a secret to it? Is it all down to the tone / volume / sustain / overdrive levels? Does distortion magnify any bad elements of your sound (i.e. old strings, badly strung/set up guitar)? Is it about the general quality of your kit? Or is it that the distortion is usually accompanied with other changes in the track - i.e. the vocal, drums, bass etc all step up simultaneously?

...It could just be my playing... but how many ways can you strike a chord and let it ring?


Neil C

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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2015, 08:15:29 PM »
Hi, Well the goods news is I can't see any reason why you can't get a great distorted sound recorded. Could you explain how your trying to record? For example do you go straight into a DAW from your guitar and are trying the pedal in front, or do your mic up your amp?
 :)
Neil
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PaulAds

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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2015, 09:07:23 PM »
hello

i've never liked distortion/overdrive pedals...

i'd much rather forego a lead boost and/or a clean sound in order to get a great break-up sound from the amp that i could use all night. then again...i wasn't versatile/bothered :)

modern guitar plugins are so good now, i can't imagine mic'ing up an amp ever again...hooray!
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pompeyjazz

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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2015, 10:56:40 PM »
In ;) my six months experience of using DAWs my number one eureka moment was discovering that I could play a dry guitar input directly into the DAW and then apply a VST effect. My fav for guitars is still freeamp. The presets are sensational on their own and if you have some time which I don't have you can achieve distortheaven  ;)

Boydie

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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2015, 11:34:27 PM »
Hey DOODLES

Ah - trying to chase the sound in your head - it is a bit of a rabbit hole

It will be interesting to hear your answer to NEIL's question about how you are recording

However here are my wild guesses based on what you have said so far...

There are many different "flavours" of what is generically referred to as "distortion", "overdrive", "fuzz", "high gain", "saturation" etc. etc.

My guess would be you are chasing a "high gain", "tube saturation" sound but the "Big Muff" is more of a "fuzz" type pedal - which may have more of a "bee in a tin can" type sound, whereas it sounds like you are wanting a more "warm" high gain sound

I would therefore suggest that you may be better off going for an "Amp Simulation" type solution

If you record on a computer based DAW I would strongly recommend checking out GUITAR RIG or AMPLITUBE

These products try to replicate the whole signal chain - eg the "stomp box", the amp, the speaker, the speaker cab, and even the mic used to record the amp in some cases

This will get you much closer to the sound you hear on commercial records that may have been recorded in a studio with boutique amps and microphones


Quote
...It could just be my playing... but how many ways can you strike a chord and let it ring?

I don't know how proficient or experienced you are at playing guitar but there are a few things you can do with your playing/set up to help the sound of distorted guitar depending on the effect you are going for:

High gain sounds you hear on records often have much less distortion on them than you think - too much distortion can actually "soften" the sound and reduce the power/punch

"Power Chords" (5ths) tend to sound better with high gain

eg G5  is played with the first finger on the 6th string at the 3rd fret and the third finger on the 5th string at the 5th fret. Just these 2 notes can be very powerful and cut through a mix - often better than fuller chords that can get muddy

"Vamping" - combining "Power Chords" with "Palm Muting" (where you rest your palm across the bridge saddles) and playing rhythmically can provide a nice layer

"Layering" - guitars are often layered and panned to create a "wall of sound"

In my experience the key to achieving this without creating a muddy mess is to do the following:

- Record some "single strike" power chords - use EQ to take out some of the low end and pan to one side

- Record some "rhythmic vamping" - use EQ to take out some of the high end and a little mid scoop to make room for the other guitar and pan to the other side as the power chord guitar

- Record some "arpeggio" chords (ie picking the individual notes of full chords) and take out some low end and mids so these occupy the upper mid and higher frequencies - pan to taste

- Record some "riffs" (little repeating melodies - especially between chords) and use EQ to take out the very low and high frequencies - pan to taste

You can keep going to build up the sound but try to keep in mind which frequencies you want each guitar part to dominate and carve away the other frequencies

This approach should help you get a powerful and punchy sound where each part can be heard and it does not become a "mush"

I hope this helps

When you let us know how you are recording we can add some more thoughts
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 11:45:34 PM by Boydie »
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Doodles

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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2015, 10:35:24 AM »
Wow, what a response!! Thank you all  :).

Neil, I have an Epiphone Les Paul, which I plug into a Boss RC 30 loop pedal via a Big Muff, then listen via an old 10 Watt practice amp (usually through headphones). I then download to a laptop and listen through headphones. Production wise I use Audacity/Ableton. I did download a DAW free trial, but didn't really invest the time to understand it before it expired.

Boydie, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. The 'bee in a tin can' sound is what I'm getting - and "MUSH" is also the right word. I looked up what pedals the Pumkins use - and found that they use the Big Muff... but perhaps they are using this on the full on heavy tracks and the sound I am after - when they move from mellow to punchy distortion (probably high gain distortion) - requires a different pedal. Its a trick they use a lot, but the actual sound I'm seeking is on Blew Away (from their B sides album, Pisces Iscarot) @ 2:26 - as a listener the transition gets me every time.

Strangely I've played guitar (mostly acoustic, and a bit clumsily) on and off for 25 years. I've been learning keyboard/synth for 1 year... Yet I find my synth recordings (on a second hand Korg PS60) sound much better than anything I record on guitar. Power chords is a good point - I can hear how just the 1st and 5th would cut through the sound better, dominate the frequencies and give a less less muddy sound. I was using mostly open chords - some with major/minor 7ths (probably not suited to distrortion!!). The best sound I managed to get was picking muted arpeggios through both the Big Muff and an analogue delay pedal - that sounded interesting and OK - but still a bit amateur compared to the sound from the Korg.

Boydie, you've really helped clarify my mind on this - provided focus instead of confusion... I would never have expected there to be so much subtletly and nuance to distortion!!

I guess I need to decide whether to switch my Big Muff for a more appropriate pedal - or take the plunge into the world of DAW. I generally prefer working with pedals - I feel more creative when I escape from the looming presence of a laptop - which I stare at all working day and assosciate with recording a take, rather than playing freely. Though I imagine if I got into DAW it would be worth it?

Ben

 


 


Boydie

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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2015, 01:20:08 PM »
Quote
I looked up what pedals the Pumkins use - and found that they use the Big Muff... but perhaps they are using this on the full on heavy tracks and the sound I am after - when they move from mellow to punchy distortion (probably high gain distortion) - requires a different pedal.

I am sure they do use a "Big Muff" but I am willing to bet that they are putting this in the front of an tube amp & cab costing a few thousand!

From what you describe, and if you want to avoid the "software" route, I think you would be better off going for a stand alone "multi fx unit", which will include lots of different distortion types, amp & cab simulators

Something like this from Digitech looks like great value (and fun) for £52
http://www.dv247.com/guitars/digitech-element-guitar-multi-effects-pedal--205101

Although for an extra £17 you can get this for £69 that will also give you a load of "wah" and "Whammy pitch bend" options with the attached footpedal
http://www.dv247.com/guitars/digitech-element-xp-guitar-multi-effects-pedal--205102

I think you will get a lot more "bang for buck" by getting a unit like this that will not just give you a wide range of distortion pedal emulations (including a Big Muff) but also the amp sims etc. will give you much more variation

If your budget can stretch to £140 then this may be of interest as you will be able to record directly into Audacity and Ableton via USB, which may improve your workflow

http://www.andertons.co.uk/multi-fx-units/pid32607/cid693/digitech-rp360xp-guitar-multifx.asp

I gig with a Digitech GSP1101 and I have previously owned Digitech pedals and they are great
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Doodles

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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2015, 09:52:14 AM »
Thanks Boydie,

Sound advice I'm sure. You should have seen the look an my wife's face when I suggested the GSP1101 as a Christmas present - a picture  ;D

PaulAds

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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2015, 09:57:31 AM »
I picked up a digitech 360xp for around £80 s/h...and it's really great. tons of stompboxes, a great looper, excellent amp sims and doubles as an audio interface :)
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Doodles

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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2015, 02:42:43 PM »
Well, just sold the "Big Muff" and Wah pedal on e-bay... Looks like a digitech 360xp might be in the Xmas stocking after all  ;D