[RJDG14]

I've tried and tried to write songs with various tunes over time, but then, in most cases, I've soon heard a very similar sounding song that I must have accidentally forgotten about and interpreted as my own. I've almost felt, even by listening to the most recent albums by various bands, that most catchy tunes had already been done by the early part of the 2010s. Strangely other classmates who I've worked with before now have written songs which while I didn't like them, they sounded original. So why am I having difficulties coming up with an original tune to a fairly normal rhythm? Am I less musically creative than them, or are they doing what I'm doing, just with tunes that I've never heard? Also, why can I write original lyrics quite easily, being able to write a rough song draft in only a few minutes, yet some find this much harder? Please help me on how I can come up with a tune...

[GTB]

Hi, the easy answer is "just keep trying", but I know that isn't helpful so here's a few thoughts on this.
1 - Listen to lots of music of different styles, especially things you don't normally hear, classical, jazz, anything.  This will make sure you are exposed to plenty of musical ideas which you can draw influence from, even though you may adapt them into your own preferred style.
2 - Focus on your lyrics.  If you have good lyrics you should 'feel' where the emphasis needs to be, where they need to go up or down, which syllables and words need more of less emphasis, where you need to speed up or slow down, where you back the music off and where you make it louder.  Let the lyrics dictate the melody.
3 - once you have a melody you can work out the chords and/or riffs.  This is where some musical theory would be useful so you know what flavour of chords to use; major, minor, seventh etc.  Don't forget you don't always need a full chord too, often you can 'suggest' a sound with only to or three notes of a chord.
4 - Learn about song structure.  It does depend whether you are aiming at commercial success or personal satisfaction but there are a lot of tried and tested structures and techniques which are well documented. 
5 - Experiment and break the 'rules'.  Music is creative and history is full of great bands that ignored (recreated) the 'rules'.
6. Keep trying and never give up.  Try recording as much as you can, whether full songs or just fragments.  You'll build up a library of ideas that you can draw on and create new combinations in the future.
7. Collaborate.  If you're lucky enough to write/compose with others you'll benefit enourmously.  You may not create exactly what you set out to, but you will create.
Good kluck

[tone]

I've almost felt, even by listening to the most recent albums by various bands, that most catchy tunes had already been done by the early part of the 2010s.

It's easy to feel defeated when you can't write something you're happy with, and it's tempting to think that all the good songs have already been written.

But that is a fantasy. Some of my favourite artists have written & recorded spectacular songs since 2010. I've written my best work since then, all of it original, none of it plagiarised (to my knowledge).

I think GTB's advice is excellent. You need to break out of your musical patterns, and put yourself under less pressure. Listen to and play a little jazz or classical. Listen to some world music (I recommend Ali Farka Toure

Learn some new chords on your instrument, and how to use them. Learn a song in an unusual time signature.

And while you're doing all of that, never forget that music is fun!

Good luck.

[jmacdon]

Hi, the easy answer is "just keep trying"

Great question, but rather than keep trying, just have a break (or a kit-kat).

Two techniques that never fail to work..... well usually...
1 - when you feel chilled-out (maybe after a glass of Chardonnay or a sp**ff) - just take your instrument, whether it be a guitar or piano or flute - and play the first natural chord progression that comes into your head.   Chances are, it'll be original.  And there you go.

2 - always have your iPhone handy, to record any melody or tune you suddenly think of during the day - or night.   Sing or hum it onto your iPhone and then you can play it back at a convenient time and develop it then on.

J.

[Alan Starkie]

All good advice above.

NB - can we be a little more aware of what is suggested to posters who mention 'classmates' in their posts as they could, in fact, be children?

[S.T.C]

i just write lyrics and sing them out,with or with out guitar...and if they sound good to me,i work on them?

[Sing4me88]

i just write lyrics and sing them out,with or with out guitar...and if they sound good to me,i work on them?

I used to have the same approach - minus the guitar of course- but it just didn't seem to work for me. Anyone I tried to collab with couldn't connect with my 'singing' In fairness though I do have no vocal talent, sense of ting, pitch, note length etc. Problem is that in my head I know what I want the melody, harmonies etc to be like and can hear Ellie Goulding, Sam Smith, Bruno etc sing it exactly that way but when communicating to a collab partner it was always well ME singing!  Granted it probably works better for you if you because you are an infinitely better singer than I am

I've now tried to move on and use a piano/keyboard to write vocal melodies which helps a little as I'm able to hit a 'right' note that can be sustained etc but doesn't help much on the other hand as I can't play and am simply pressing keys closest to what is in my head!

Is this even a viable way to write a vocal melody? Any like a bass line and musical melody hook does the vocal topline notes have to correlate with chord notes? The notes I'm pressing are all over the place and really based on impulse and what sounds good or close to what is in my head rather than any adherence to music theory (which I don't have BTW!).

[Gallowglass]

There's nothing new under the sun

King Solomon, 970BC

If he had trouble finding originality back then, it's well outside our grasp now. It's even frowned upon in some genres. Just write with your own voice (which is unique to you) and without consciously copying someone note-for-note, and you'll be alright.

[Paulski]

I would focus on creating original lyrics.
By their nature, original lyrics have different emphasis/stress points so lend themselves to a unique melody line. You can still fall into the trap of forcing them into someone else's melody line but hopefully you (or your supporters) will notice and point that out early in the process.
My two cents CAD
Paul

[Dutchbeat]

@Sing4me88

Is this even a viable way to write a vocal melody?

Yes, i think that is a way to do it, and just go for it!

[Boydie]

Is this even a viable way to write a vocal melody? Any like a bass line and musical melody hook does the vocal topline notes have to correlate with chord notes? The notes I'm pressing are all over the place and really based on impulse and what sounds good or close to what is in my head rather than any adherence to music theory (which I don't have BTW!).

Because I think I know you quite well through our collabs I think I can get away with saying this...

You could have learnt all the music theory you need for songwriting in the time you have spent posting about how you don't know anything about music theory

I really don't mean this as an "attack" but more of a "challenge"

You clearly have a talent and ambition for writing commercially aimed songs and if it is really your goal to take this further then I think you should commit a month or so to really learn some basic music theory - just dive in and put any pre-conceptions that it is "boring" or "hard" to one side

Learning music at school was probably not the greatest/dynamic experience but if you approached a few teachers and said you want to learn piano and songwriting theory / techniques (using modern songs as examples) you would enjoy every second and pick it up in no time

Eg if you had taken piano lessons over the past 3 months I think you would be where you want to be

Lecture over 

However, your approach of playing random keys to match the melody in your head is an absolutely fine way to develop top line melodies - and even people with a grounding in music theory often try to "forget the theory" and work this way. The advantage they have though is that they can then identify WHY it sounds good and then work out how best to support the melody with harmony, chords, bass line etc.

[tone]

I'm with Boydie 100% here.

If you're really serious about writing songs, then arming yourself with the right musical knowledge is the quickest and most sensible route to success.

Why learning music theory is generally looked down on among pop musicians I will never know. But I'll tell you this - even if most songwriters/ band members have no theory knowledge, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of producers do - and that's why they're entrusted with arrangements, and generally bringing a song up to its best possible shine.

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

I'm with the music theory advocates here.

if you know somebody who knows their theory, a few sessions with them will teach you all you need to know to get started. The basics aren't really that hard to learn and I'd be surprised if you weren't then hooked on the 'magic' of music and how it works.
Yes, there are 12 different major keys to familiarise yourself with eventually, but they all work on the same principle, so learning just one will get you started. Start with C major!
Don't be put off by the idea that there is too much to learn.

Refer back to your earlier thread
Here it is!
 and give it a go! If you don't have anybody to physically show you there's loads of stuff on the web.

[Sing4me88]

Hey guys.

Thanks for the feedback.

No worries Boydie- your feedback certainly wasn't construed as an attack. There is plenty of sense in what you, Tone and Cramer say. I guess I've always told myself I'm too busy to learn theory from scratch and if I'm 100% honest there is a touch of impatience and perhaps even arrogance in that I , to quote Queen, 'want it all and I want it now'!

I've no probs thinking of lyrical hooks and even topline hooks for chorus and pre using the playing by keys method but verses are really challenging. I guess I'm also slightly afraid that if I delve into theory I'll become 'boxed in' in the sense that I'll stop playing random keys and disregard everything I've 'written' so far because I've read somewhere this is the 'wrong' way.

I'm really tempting to accept your challenge and to delve in. I'm a believer in walking before running though so would probably need 'broken in' a lite first. Are there any music theory for dummies type books or online resources anyone recommends?

[S.T.C]

I reckon your probably more confused than ever  now ....learn structure ! the most important thing in song writing...literally more than anything...armed with this knowledge you will be able to at least set a song out so that the listener gets their rewards and expectations fulfilled at the moments their brains expect it occur.when it doesn't we all get a feeling something is wrong,we've been short changed some how......then write lyrics that fit in to these 2/3 well known structure patterns...if you have a year or two to get great with D.A.W or real instruments and want to develop melodies first  then do that.