"The Ocean's Gentle Breeze" - James Nighthawk

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flossie

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« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2012, 09:01:17 AM »
Argh!!  ???


Considering the number of off key singers, iPhone recordings and god awful mixes I sit thru on here (and ignore all these factors) to focus on the song and give clear helpful and always positive helpful reviews....


I find this unnecessarily mean and unpleasant  >:(

Boydie

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« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2012, 09:43:34 AM »
Having followed the thread quite closely I genuinely don't think it was meant in that way FLOSSIE

I think JAMES was simply making the opposite point of what had been raised with him - i.e. his track was obviously well produced and recorded but was still being criticised on the vocal / performance / song

I believe JAMES was using the above as an example to say that he listens past the factors listed to focus on the song, give helpful advice and positive reviews - which is bourne out by the reviews he has given - so I think all he is asking others to do the same with his songs

I am starting to worry that this is going to blow out of all proportion soon and I do not think that would be good for anyone - it has already received it's own "label" (Wordgate) - which is never a good sign!!

I think it only fitting to end this post on a song...

Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?

I seen you 'round for a long long time
I really 'membered you when you drink my wine

Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?


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Kafla

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« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2012, 09:44:14 AM »
I was going to post on this last night but I had a few sherbets and decided not to.

I agree with Flossie - I really cant understand the comment you have made about iphone recording, off key etc - This is a songwriting website and although you are a full time producer you will always be critiqued on the song first - and in that respect you are very much one of the gang - no better or worse

Sure we all try to present our songs as best as possible, but a good song will always shine through regardless of the off key singing or crap recording

I think you just need to accept that your songs are not as good as you think for the moment and there is plenty of room for improvement.

When I joined this forum I was the best songwriter in my house by a mile, I posted my first few songs on here and sat back with a warm glow and waited for the avalanche of praise that I was certain would follow

Although my songs were generally well received there was plenty of criticism - I remember one spacedogg that particularly stung - at the time I recorded on my ipad mic and he said that my vocals sounded boxy although I might be trying to encapsulate the feeling of entrapment felt by the songs protagonist. It was such a smart arsed comment that it really did hurt. Until I calmed down and realised that he was right - the vocals were poorly recorded. So I improved my set up, I practiced my vocals before I recorded , I didn't accept the first take, I worked hard to capture emotion in my vocal.

Now I put my songs up on here , so its open game what the forum want to say. I have learned over time that I can really benefit from the criticism no matter how harsh. I will challenge a review if I feel it is necessary but I would guess like Schavu has said if more than 2-3 people pick up on the same thing then it probably needs fixing. I want honesty in my reviews not bullshit.

I have grown, learned and developed like you wouldn't believe on this forum and conversely enough now that the confidence is flowing I have never felt so humble.

So James I listened again to the song - the lyrics ruined it even more this time for me and the singing whether put on or not is really airy - I would go as far as to say it would be massively improved by tweaking these lyrics and getting an out and out singer to stand in for you. If you really want to sing I am sure you can work an effect through your vocal or even sing differently to remove the airy sound.

That is my opinion - it is only an opinion - you choose what you wish to do with it.

By constantly defending your position or even introducing your Mum to back up your point makes you look arrogant, aloof and quite honestly ridiculous. My Mum used to tell everyone on my street that my singing used to interfere with her TV reception!

You need to learn some humility my friend - take it on the chin and grow from it - but the points that many have raised need addressing.

I posted a song a while back called 'seabed'. The drums got hammered - I didn't think there was anything wrong with them. But then more people had an issue with them so surely it was worth working on to see if they were right so I asked Paul Vasey to remix the song - It will come back better,  I have no doubt about this. People only commented because they cared, because they wanted the song to be better - they cared about me enough to tell me I could improve my song - How amazing is that!!!!

I hope no of this offends, I am being cruel to be kind , if I didnt care I would say nothing - but I think it needs to be said.

Remember how amazing it is that people care enough to suggest ways you can improve your writing & singing!

And a very speedy recovery to your Mum - ask her how her TV reception is ;D

Kafla

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« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2012, 09:47:25 AM »


I am starting to worry that this is going to blow out of all proportion soon and I do not think that would be good for anyone - it has already received it's own "label" (Wordgate) - which is never a good sign!!


[/quote]

That was 100% meant as a friendly, tongue in cheek joke ;D

tone

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« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2012, 10:19:38 AM »
James, you've obviously spent a lot of time and energy writing and recording this song, and of course, that completely justifies you defending it.

But of course it doesn't make it immune to criticism.

It's a very brave song musically, and quite enchanting. The way it ebbs and flows like the sea in still weather is very engaging, and a little hypnotic.

Should you use a separate singer? I don't think so. Could you do a better vocal take? Probably. The problem I see is more one of contrast than of style. The vocal delivery is gentle - no problem there. But the music, the melody, the timing, the drumming is incredibly direct, and I feel a sense of tension between them.

Lyrics? Again, it's a taste thing. I'm not going to tell anyone they're wrong, especially not the writer, but I would say that they created a contrast which I wasn't expecting, and which didn't work as well for me as it could have. Maybe this is the contrast you're looking for?

It's interesting that you brought up some very 'marmite' vocalists. I love Bjork, and I love Tom Waits. I get stick for liking Waits particularly, but I stand behind my judgement and say that he's a great writer, and a great performer (in the studio at least). Bjork - is a genius.

I don't think either of them sell many records, but they've enriched my world incredibly. If you asked the average person or music fan what they thought, they'd probably throw a lot of criticism at both of these artists, yet they've found their style and sound by following their own ideas, and not really caring what the world at large thinks.

James, if you like this song, if you love it, then don't change it. That's all. If some of these criticisms are getting you down because you're unsure about your song, then I'd say look at it again.

And now I'm going to pull out my Sherrif's badge:

Please can we keep this topic about the song? There are a few comments flying around that are a little too personal. We're here to constructively support each other. As you know, I'm not against honesty or even causing offence. But, I am against nuclear war on my forum.

So, peace to men and all that jazz. :)
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Boydie

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« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2012, 10:45:29 AM »
Quote
It's interesting that you brought up some very 'marmite' vocalists. I love Bjork, and I love Tom Waits. I get stick for liking Waits particularly, but I stand behind my judgement and say that he's a great writer, and a great performer (in the studio at least). Bjork - is a genius.


And that is the beauty of diversity - I can't stand Bjork, I just don't "get it" - although I did like her hit "Oh So Quiet" (ok, si I am a pop whore  :-[  ;D)

However, as with all area of diversity I can appreciate her skill and creativity
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Kafla

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« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2012, 10:52:29 AM »
I completely apologise if anything I have written in this thread is personal or offensive

I love a bit of Nighthawk, you know that James ;)

James Nighthawk

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« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2012, 11:21:48 AM »
@Flossie, Kaf, et al:

Yes, Boydie read that comment correctly, glad it wasn't completely misunderstood by everyone!! I WAS NOT even remotely being mean. The opposite. I sit and carefully review people on here. The comment re the quality of presentation was me making the point that I put aside my personal preferences to presentation to be the reviewer I am and I focus on the song, which is what this place is about. And I do not ever review in a negative way. I have recently received a bunch of PMs to thank me for a constructive review. These things lift my day

The direction of this thread has saddened my day. Things are getting way out of hand. Can people please walk away from it now.

I went for both retraction and humility yesterday in a very clear, open way. I really, really try to be a warm and kind forumite... I wouldn't know any other way to be honest. :)

@Kaf
You have never offended me, you offer your opinions in a very balanced way and are polite and kind. We have had great discussions about your work, my work, and music in general. Always balanced and always get me thinking. The point Re my mum was of the moment and a simple "she knows my spoken voice better than anyone", nothing else. I did hesitate to type it in case it was taken the wrong way. The problem of text vs speech

@Tone
A balanced and lovely post, thank you for calming the waters. I am ALL for opinion, and to be honest if everyone liked everything about a song I would be worried! There is ALWAYS something to improve in writing.


Thank you all. Big hugs and love!!

James
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 11:31:42 AM by James Nighthawk »
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vibesville

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« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2012, 12:14:19 PM »
Argh!!  ???

How many songs do I have to post before people stop saying that I sing "fake". This is my singing voice!! I can't fake it. I sing how I sing. It is slightly airy. I have proven that across many of my songs...  Next up I will post a live song so there will be no editing and effects etc.  Please. Let it drop. I can't help but take it personally now.

And I have been accused of over enuciation and "unclear diction" separately. WTF?

I am getting cheesed off now.

Considering the number of off key singers, iPhone recordings and god awful mixes I sit thru on here (and ignore all these factors) to focus on the song and give clear helpful and always positive helpful reviews....

Bloody hell guys!! I am not happy right now.


James come on man, don't take criticism to heart just take it on board and 'listen to what the man said'.
It's about weighing it up and deciding if it holds any credibility.

For me your a breathy singer which comes across as a little false, which does not take away from the fact that your a good singer.
I've lost count of the number of times I've re recorded a vocal track because I got to close and personal with the mic and picked up to much breathy accents. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

My best critic is my partner who will quite happily put my nose out of joint in respect of performance because sometimes as an artist, I can't see the wood for the trees. Nines time out of ten she'll be right!

Not everybody is articulate so it kinda throws diplomacy out of the window. The best we can do is make a choice and try and learn by it.

Anyway what do I know... some people say 'Your full of shit Kirby!' ;) baa humbug... what do they know!

Peace and Love man with a little Rock and Roll thrown in! x
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flossie

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« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2012, 12:24:13 PM »
Hi James

It may not be what you intended but it's how it came across.   :-*

I still think you're a lovely person anyway  ;)

Anyway moving.... on a joke


Eileen and her husband Bob went for counselling after 25 years of marriage.

When asked what the problem was, Eileen went into a passionate, painful tirade listing every problem they had ever had in the 25 years they had been married.
 
She went on and on and on: neglect, lack of intimacy, emptiness, loneliness, feeling unloved and unlovable, an entire laundry list of unmet needs she had endured over the course of their marriage.

Finally, after allowing this to go on for a sufficient length of time, the therapist got up, walked around the desk and after asking Eileen to stand, embraced her, unbuttoned her blouse and bra, put his hands on her breasts and massaged them thoroughly, while kissing her passionately as her husband Bob watched with a raised eyebrow!

Eileen shut up, buttoned up her blouse, and quietly sat down while basking in the glow of being highly aroused.

The therapist turned to Bob and said, 'This is what your wife needs at least three times a week. Can you do this?'

Bob thought for a moment and replied, 'Well, I can drop her off here on Mondays and Wednesdays, but on Fridays, I play golf.
 

vibesville

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« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2012, 12:48:47 PM »
Hi James

It may not be what you intended but it's how it came across.   :-*

I still think you're a lovely person anyway  ;)

Anyway moving.... on a joke


Eileen and her husband Bob went for counselling after 25 years of marriage.

When asked what the problem was, Eileen went into a passionate, painful tirade listing every problem they had ever had in the 25 years they had been married.
 
She went on and on and on: neglect, lack of intimacy, emptiness, loneliness, feeling unloved and unlovable, an entire laundry list of unmet needs she had endured over the course of their marriage.

Finally, after allowing this to go on for a sufficient length of time, the therapist got up, walked around the desk and after asking Eileen to stand, embraced her, unbuttoned her blouse and bra, put his hands on her breasts and massaged them thoroughly, while kissing her passionately as her husband Bob watched with a raised eyebrow!

Eileen shut up, buttoned up her blouse, and quietly sat down while basking in the glow of being highly aroused.

The therapist turned to Bob and said, 'This is what your wife needs at least three times a week. Can you do this?'

Bob thought for a moment and replied, 'Well, I can drop her off here on Mondays and Wednesdays, but on Fridays, I play golf.
 


;)))
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GuitarArt1980

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« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2012, 03:11:41 PM »
I really really like the odd time sig. The voice and the music do it for me. However, the deliver felt heavy-handed and overly exaggerated in parts ("breeze", "sigh") and I was wishing for a more memorable melody in the chorus parts (on the otherhand, the guitar line after first chorus is very memorable). Overall, great job!
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chrislong170273

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« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2012, 09:39:37 PM »
Hi

no idea why there are 4 pages of comments, i haven't read them :-)
but my thoughts for what they are worth.
I like the opening, the drum beat and the guitar playing, and guitar line, is excellent. Structurally it all works well..
Being a big soul fan, I find myself struggling to empathise with this emotionally. Sorrryy, this is problem with reviews and why I don;t like them, because someone else will probably love this, and you would prbably hate my stuff...
so apologies if I have repeated anything nayone else has said.
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montydog

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« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2012, 07:57:37 PM »
James,

This is one of the most unusual (and that's in a good way) pieces I've heard on here - totally original in the way you've written it and in your delivery. It doesn't sound like you are trying to fit into a genre; it's just "you". Cracking production job and the whole thing hangs together well. You're obviously very talented.

mihkay

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« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2012, 10:04:13 PM »
Handcuff that drummer to what ever you have handy.  ;)

Gorgeous production. Odd but not intrusive time signature. Lovely use of sound effects.

QUOTE "came out pretty much as I heard it in my head"  I understand that one. It's great when that happens!  8) Usually involves odd tunings or time sigs though... ;D

This is certainly a tune that will go on my favourites list.  Excellent.
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