[Silver Machine]

This is a great forum but the organisation is shit.
We have so many new people joining every week it gets chaotic.
You make an effort to get involved here, have a week off, come back, and you dont know anyone any more. Ok so you have to deal with that, but the problem is noobs don't read the Rules for Posting, because they just aint visible enough.
So noobs don't know that they can only post a song every two weeks, or they should review other peeps songs. Chaos ensues and the mods just do nothin'.
Regulating the forum should not be left to the rank and file.
The forum rules need to be more conspicuous and the mods need to get off their asses.
Actually maybe you need mods who actively take part in the forum!

[Boydie]

I think you should reconsider your tone and attitude a little

The mods actually work VERY hard on this forum and much of it goes unnoticed, which is how it should be IMHO

Work is actually going on "behind the scenes" to improve the forum but please don't forget that the forum is FREE and has costs attached. The mods also work for free and the "rank and file" community IS the forum

Each post has a "report" button so I do not feel it is too much to ask to click a button if there is something you are unhappy with

Each member also receives a welcome email with a brief resume of the rules and a link to the forum guidelines, which are also available as a sticky in the relevant forums

I take all criticisms and ideas for improvement onboard - but I do feel the tone of your post is not helpful and a bit disrespectful to those, including me, trying to offer everyone a positive experience on this forum  

[PaulyX]

Ah, it's good to see that even after all these years, the Rockers have still got it in for the Mods.
 

[tone]

This is a great forum but the organisation is shit.

You're welcome.

We have so many new people joining every week it gets chaotic.

You'd prefer to be here by yourself on a forum nobody's interested in?

You make an effort to get involved here, have a week off, come back, and you dont know anyone any more. Ok so you have to deal with that, but the problem is noobs don't read the Rules for Posting, because they just aint visible enough.

You were a noob once, and you were welcomed in a friendly, easy-going manner. Would it hurt you to extend the same couresy?

So noobs don't know that they can only post a song every two weeks, or they should review other peeps songs. Chaos ensues and the mods just do nothin'.

By nothin' you're referring to my daily spam-sweep, email and PM responses and moderation queue monitoring? Got it.

Regulating the forum should not be left to the rank and file.

It isn't.

The forum rules need to be more conspicuous and the mods need to get off their asses.
Actually maybe you need mods who actively take part in the forum!

I worked my ass off for 8 years creating this forum from scratch, advertising it, making it viable, and then passing it on with no disruption whatsover to Boydie who's doing a sterling job of keeping the original vision alive. Additionally we've been putting hours and hours into the next iteration (coming soon) of the forum to make it easier to use, mobile friendly, easier to moderate, and better experience for all the members including YOU.

What have you done? Besides get up on your snowflake pedestal and bitch about us?

Ah, it's good to see that even after all these years, the Rockers have still got it in for the Mods.
 

Ah hahah very good sir, very good.

[Silver Machine]

Man, talk about two prima donnas who cant take relevant criticism.
Boydie does a a complete whitewash of everything I said.
And Tone bends everything I wrote, to do a hatchet job on me, all because I criticised his baby.
Man, that is evil what you did there, cutting it all up and warping it, so you could smear me.
If you can't take relevant criticism and improve, you're gonna lose your monopoly as the best damn songwriting forum.
I wont bother clarifying anything in my first post, as you would plainly rather take umbrage and sulk than listen to reason.
I will quit the forum to save you further embarrassment.

[tone]

Man, talk about two prima donnas who cant take relevant criticism.
Boydie does a a complete whitewash of everything I said.
And Tone bends everything I wrote, to do a hatchet job on me, all because I criticised his baby.
Man, that is evil what you did there, cutting it all up and warping it, so you could smear me.
If you can't take relevant criticism and improve, you're gonna lose your monopoly as the best damn songwriting forum.
I wont bother clarifying anything in my first post, as you would plainly rather take umbrage and sulk than listen to reason.
I will quit the forum to save you further embarrassment.

How is it evil to reply to your (unfounded) criticisms point by point? I reply to many posts in this way, but I've never been called evil before. Your post was aggressive, self-righteous and (here's where you let yourself down most) badly thought out. My reply was appropriate to the tone of your original post.

If you want to run away and quit just because you got shot down for being rude and unnecessary, then go for it. But if you want to be a reasonable adult human being, stick around, and deal with it when people pull you up on your attitude. If you're willing to have a grown up conversation I'm sure we can resolve this and get on with making some music.

Why do you think I'm embarrassed?

A couple of other things:
it's not a monopoly- there are other songwriting forums. But we are the best, because we maintain and insist on a friendly space. That includes messages to us.

Relevant criticism is a very subjective term. Constructive criticism is always welcome; rudeness however is not.

Evil means profoundly immoral and/ or wicked. My reply was merely uncompromising.

I don't usually nit pick, but since you're a fan of 'relevant criticism', here it is.

[Boydie]

Boydie does a a complete whitewash of everything I said.

Really?!?!?!

I accepted the criticism and said we were working on it 

I did take issue with the tone and disagreed with your comments about the MODS so I do not see where you ae getting "whitewash" from?

A whitewash would have been deleting your post and banning you from the forum 

I believe in free speech so you are free to air your opinions but please be "big enough" to return the courtesy and engage in discussion instead of insulting the people who are trying to provide you with the platform you want

It would be a shame for you to quit over something so petty and I would love you to stay - but please reconsider your tone and unnecessarily aggressive attitude as it doesn't really help anyone

[Martinswede]

Nothing seems to be able to work exactly as one person wants it to work without everyone spending/wasting their time making things work in that very way.

I don't expect the members to always make posts I want to read or write songs I want to hear. I just check in for 15 min now and then to see whats going on. And most of the time I like it.

Martin

[Skub]

This is a great forum but the organisation is shit.
We have so many new people joining every week it gets chaotic.
You make an effort to get involved here, have a week off, come back, and you dont know anyone any more. Ok so you have to deal with that, but the problem is noobs don't read the Rules for Posting, because they just aint visible enough.
So noobs don't know that they can only post a song every two weeks, or they should review other peeps songs. Chaos ensues and the mods just do nothin'.
Regulating the forum should not be left to the rank and file.
The forum rules need to be more conspicuous and the mods need to get off their asses.
Actually maybe you need mods who actively take part in the forum!

Yo Silver.

I hope you are well. 

You make some worthwhile points,but then lose ground on delivery method!

Firstly,any forum is never going to please everyone all the time,so there must be a spirit of reconciliation and cooperation. There are always going to be disagreements,but we all need to suck that one up on occasion. No need to flounce over a technicality,just stay and keep posting your highly imaginative creations.

I think the 14 day rule itself could be placed a little more prominently,though I'm unsure how that would be implemented. I understand your frustration. I find it best just to report a violation,after all in most cases it's just an oversight. I believe I did the same when I joined.
 I no longer draw attention on the actual thread itself,as this can often be taken the wrong way and I'm not comfortable with that anyway.

On the plus side,I think it's great to see so many new faces and while I realise not all will stay and join the community,I'm hopeful some will. It makes the forum a stronger,more vibrant place.

In a rambling fashion and at the risk of being called a brown nose,I for one greatly value the work that goes into running this little corner of the internet. I know myself,I take a lot for granted,it can be a thankless task trying to keep us all happy.

Any forum is only as good as it's members,so perhaps when you've cooled down a little Silver,you'll realise you are a valuable asset and along with the variety offered by us all as a collective,this place can continue to grow and be an outlet and a source of learning and new listening in the future.

Davy.

[Hooded Singer]

lol.

[PaulAds]

Yeah...this is such a great place, but it can’t be all things to all women (or even men) 

I’d be really sorry to see you go, Silver Machine...sometimes taking a little break from the forum does me good...it does seem to have gone a little bonkers with new members lately, but that’s got to be a good thing.

I’ve been pretty quiet of late (busy trying to get an album together and watching/waiting for the cataclysmic events about to explode in the world of American politics to manifest themselves) but I always end up finding I miss the place when I’m not around.

[S.T.C]

Quote.
' I will quit the forum to save you further embarrassment.'

Really, what a shame. Close the door on the way out..

[Wicked Deeds]

Silver, you raise some good points, mainly about new members and at times,  their lack of understanding of the rules.  I'm sure some people post excessively out of enthusiasm and excitement after finding a great place to share their work.  A little consideration on their part would go a long way. As for the mods, they do a great job in my opinion.  I am in no doubt that there is a great deal of work going on in the background. The forum flows quite naturally because the mods aren't heavy handed.  I think their strongest skill is making themselves available to advise and to impart their experience/knowledge.  

I think it's also good idea that forum members help to politely suggest and remind others about forum etiquette.  In doing so, they embrace the warm spirit of give and take that exists here.  

Silver Machine, My main reason for posting on this thread is to ask you to consider returning to the forum.  Your posts are both engaging and generous.  You are an asset to the songwriter forum. It can be hard to express what we wish to say and sometimes the main points are perhaps voiced in a harsh way (often with the best intentions). This is a great place my friend. I've was here a long, long  time ago.  I have left and returned. I see the true value of the forum: a place of friendship and  inspiration. The new members are so incredibly lucky.  They find  advice, knowledge, help, encouragement.  I don't think that there is another songwriter forum that offers so much to new writers. Hopefully, new members will recognise this and treat the forum respectfully.  The rules are in place. It doesn't take a great deal to read and observe them.  In doing so, we ensure that this place continues to develop as the best songwriter forum on the internet.

Paul

[Ramshackles]

I am a member of a few forums related to music in some way. This one is definitely one of the cleanest & friendliest.

There is one very heavily modded forum - gearslutz (I think its OK to mention the name since its not really a 'competitor', its focus is on recording & audio gear).  There are probably 10x more members than this forum, flame wars often ensue and posts are regularly deleted or 'edited'.
Suffice to say it is a very intimidating place to post!

Here we tend to operate a more friendly benefit-of-the-doubt system. Sure, n00bs often don't read the guidelines. But how many people really do? In such situations generally what happens is:

- A new joiner quickly posts their latest music (cause really, thats what 90% of everyone wants to do when they join a songwriting forum...).
- He/She might receive 1 or 2 cursory reviews but not much.
- She either goes on to start contributing to the forum or they get bored and leave.

In a few circumstances a new member might post a few songs in which case they pretty much always get a friendly nudge.
99% of the time, members who just want to post their own songs quickly get bored and leave.

I much prefer this approach to a heavy handed approach, such as preventing new posts until you have made some replies or whatever. That usually just results in meaningless rubbish to up your reply count so you can post your own, which in the end makes it a more spammy and less interesting forum.

Also, I think it is worth pointing out that we probably have a number of relatively young members - teens/early teens, especially compared to the other sites I'm on - songwriting is something you can get into from a very early age - and because of that I think it is paramount to ensure a friendly atmosphere and too expect a few 'bumps' along the way. What teenager ever reads the rules?! They don't have time for that, everything needs to be now, now, NOW!


Too many people joining is a non-issue IMO. Whats the problem here? Thats the point of a forum! Yes, you will get people signing up and then pretty much signing off - thats the nature of life on the internet. You should see the 'chaos' on some bigger forums.

As for mods not doing any work...Boydie and Tone are pretty much taking out 'trash' every day. You should see the number of spam posts (adverts, clickbait etc) that get deleted...

BTW, I'm pretty sure a discussion like this comes up a couple of times each year...although not in such an aggressive manner 

[Marrianna]

This is a great forum but the organisation is shit.
We have so many new people joining every week it gets chaotic.
You make an effort to get involved here, have a week off, come back, and you dont know anyone any more. Ok so you have to deal with that, but the problem is noobs don't read the Rules for Posting, because they just aint visible enough.
So noobs don't know that they can only post a song every two weeks, or they should review other peeps songs. Chaos ensues and the mods just do nothin'.
Regulating the forum should not be left to the rank and file.
The forum rules need to be more conspicuous and the mods need to get off their asses.
Actually maybe you need mods who actively take part in the forum!

Silver Machine

I would be sorry for you to leave. Your work is interesting and I have enjoyed listening when i could.
Perhaps you wrote your views rather more plain-speaking than some may have done but it is easy to see the points you are making. As said by some others, you have made some valid points ( and you had a right to do that) I.e. so many new people turning up and then disappearing so quickly. This has puzzled me for a long time. The continuity for established members gets affected and those people then go on standby until they feel they can get back to familiar ground.
I just think you got a bit carried away with your little rant which can always be rectified if  pausing before pressing the post button, so to make sure no offence will be caused unintentinally.

Hope you carry on with your special creations.
Marrianna