The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: LAquila on January 22, 2017, 06:21:34 AM
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Hi all,
I'm a newbie...to the forum, not so much to songwriting.
Here's one I wrote last month which I quite like. Wondering what others think.
All feedback and constructive criticism gratefully received.
cheers,
L
https://soundcloud.com/laquila-409411957/midnight-angel-kiss
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Sorry, clearly I didn't read the rules clearly enough before posting the above.
I wrote this song as a goodbye to my girlfriend, Max, after we split up - it took several weeks to find the right note but only a few hours to actually write the song. The initial letters of the title spell her name, with an X to represent the word 'kiss'. Cute, I know, and no, I'm not fifteen LOL.
Here are the lyrics:
Forever seemed so near to me
But now it’s gone
I believe we never had the opportunity
To talk about the way it all went wrong
So many things I want to tell you
But no more time to think about that list
I just have to let you go now
My midnight angel kiss
If I could turn back the hands of time
Just to be with you again
I would give you everything I ever had
In the hope you’d feel the same
We shared so many good times
I’d take back every chance I missed
To tell you that I love you
My midnight angel kiss
Forever seems so far away
Now you’re gone
Every hour is another empty day
It just goes on and on
I want you to be happy
With me or without me even if
I have to let you go now
My midnight angel kiss
You know how much I love you
My midnight angel kiss
But I have to say goodbye
My midnight angel kiss
My midnight angel kiss
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This proves how important good production is !!!
this sounds like a very good song destroyed by bad production,
no offence meant to you my friend, your starting in the excact same place I started, good song with bad production which ruins a good song from the listeners point of veiw..it's still a good song but todays sophisticated listener expects a reasonable quality..
so your songwriting skills are there!! you just gotta get some production skills under your belt...
some advice..you need to remove the incredible sibilance from the vocal..dunno what gear you use but an eq notch would help or a de esser on your vocal track or a pop filter in front of your mic..
it's a good song mate, just trying to help you get better at selling it to the listener.. :)
best, Kevin :)
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Thanks Shadowfax...for the compliments about the song itself and especially for the advice about the poor production quality.
I use Audacity and a Snowball mike. As you can tell, I have no clue about recording or mixing or what even sounds good.
I checked for some of the features you mentioned on Audacity and all I could find was a low pass filter function which I've applied to the song and removed that annoying sibilance (LOL...it didnt help that there were so many S sounds in the song).
I've reposted the link above with the new version. Hope it's even just a little better.
Thanks again,
L
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Hi L,
I really like this. The song has strong melodies. The guitar relentlessly drives on and provides a good backdrop for the vocals.
I missed the first mix, but this sounds perfectly good to me.
I like that 60s, reverb sound on the guitar and vocal. It's like listening to thoughts from inside someone's head.
Excellent write.
Digger
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Wow, thanks Digger.
Have to admit I'm a bit addicted to the reverb...it disguises the fact I can't really sing, a little anyway.
cheers,
L
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Hi, I don't know if you have automation in your DAW but you should try automating the volume of each sibilant bit of vocal...ie, turn the sibilant bits down.. :)
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Thanks again for your comments, Shadowfax. I'm still struggling with the intricacies of Mixcraft 8, the DAW I've downloaded a trial version of to try and improve my mixing skills.
Not sure if I'm even close to what's required to meet the listener expectations that you mention above - but, again, all feedback is valuable.
Also, I wonder what people think about reverb. I know I overdo it...but it sounds so much better than if I don't use it!!
cheers,
L
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Hi LAquila,
I think that this song has a lot of potential. It's well structured with a strong melody and has some good hooks as well. Regarding the production / DAW side of things, I started off with Audacity as well but the BIG thing missing from Audacity is a midi feature. Personally, I moved on to Reaper which I absolutely love, I know there are a few guys on the forum that use it. It's available as a fully functional free download and if you feel the need you can pay the $60 licence fee which is well worth it in my opinion. It's very difficult when you start out recording to get to grips with everything and it might seem a bit overwhelming but there are plenty of people on here willing to help and I see that you are getting some helpful feedback already. Well done and welcome to the forum
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Hi LAquilla,welcome to the forum. :)
I enjoyed the song,but my ears didn't like the 'singing in a subway' reverb sound. I can understand your frustration with getting a workable sound when unfamiliar with a daw. I've recently put myself through the same learning curve. All I can say is,bone up on as many youtube tutorials and take advice from everyone and you'll see the results improve. Take your time and enjoy the trip,anything that helps to get a song across is a good thing.
There's a fine song in there,just waiting for you to let it out. :)
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LAquila, The voice is good, nice melody, fine lyrics. A good song with potential to be great. Think we've all been there mate, trying to get to grips with the tech, frustrating, but you will get there. I bet when (if) you re-record this is will be awesome.
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Hi, the guitar chords were interesting and the melody worked well, though I agree with another's about the reverb, and I'm a reverb addict :P. Some really good advice from others about production you will learn a lot if you stick around here and take advantage of the experienced guys comments and tutorials.
Good,song, I enjoyed it!
Cheers
Jamie
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scrap the snowball, get a shure sm57 or something thereabouts, and an audio interface like a focurrite scarlet for example. great tune that needs to be done right.
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Hi,
I cannot really comment on the production as I’m unqualified! I record all my stuff ‘live’ - I’ll never be able to use a DAW as long as I have a hole under my nose - but maybe you could turn down the ‘verb just a little and have a look at mellowing the EQ…
Aside from that I think you have a nice, thoughtful piece here, melodically intriguing enough to hold the interest and therefore to give support to the already expressive lyric. I like the way the guitar kind of drives everything along with a kind of willowy 60’s vibe too
Phil
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Again, loads of potential, there's a good song in there, there really is. Your voice is good too.
I started with DAWs back in the early 2000s, and it took me years to get up that learning curve. Fortunately there is a lot more online help these days. The thing is, it is tremendously enjoyable and rewarding - you can turn a good idea into something really great if you stick at it.
Welcome along, and I hope you enjoy the forum!
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Thanks, everyone, for the positive, welcoming remarks and for the general level of support for my song.
@ Bill Saunders: I never thought my voice was much good in the past but I have noticed it improve recently since I dropped the tuning on my guitar from E to D. I also tend to cover it with lots of reverb...too much reverb :(
I've started experimenting with different DAWs: have tried Reaper on the advice of others here but I think I might go with Mixcraft. Reaper seems to offer a lot but my recordings there seem to have lots of pops and clicks that I never noticed on Audacity. (but, yes, I need to move on from Audacity)
@ boolio: I noticed that 'willowy' vibe the first time I heard it played back and thought, 'OMG, it's the Mamas and the Papas!' Was happy enough with that but it wasn't what I'd set out to do. Sometimes good things happen when you don't expect them, LOL.
@ mikek: Yep, I defs need a new mike. The Snowball has been good to me for about 5 years but I think it's time to upgrade. I'll research your suggestions for a mike and an audio interface - although I only have just so much room in my head for new technology and I'm using it all up on wrapping my brain around whatever DAW I choose.
Thanks to the others for your positive remarks on chords, melody, lyrics, etc. Yeah, I actually think this is one of my best so far, as meaningful as it was to me when I wrote it in early December, and it frustrates me no end to realise that my skill deficit in terms of production means it probably won't reach the audience I'd like it to. Still, she liked it and said it made her cry (in a good way).
Gosh, what more could a pining poet ask for?
cheers,
L
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I liked the song, the production may not be great but with that etheral reverb and the sad melody and lyrics it provides an interesting atmosphere, like a sort of desolation feeling, similar to, say, "Exit Music (for a film)" by Radiohead. Good job.
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Hi LAquila!
I read through the replies and all were focused on recording quality.
Nothing bad with it. I recently stooped using Audacity and started with Studio One.
Its a huge step forward but also a steep learning curve. I bet I only use 25% of its
potential. The thing is that Audacity is not that bad. Its just not that good either.
Your song reminds me of 'Forever Autumn' by Moody Blues. And that's a good thing.
I'm not a fan of that band but that song really nails it.
Your lyrics are good. Yes, you might want to give the singing another try.
You say you use reverb to cover up a lack of musical talent. I see no problem
in being less then perfect. We all strive to get better at what we are doing.
See it as an opportunity to get good critique on your vocals and guitar playing
and post a less soaked version of your song. The people at this forum are good
at giving constructive criticism so you shouldn't worry about that.
Back to the part about buying stuff. I costs, in my opinion, a lot to get decent
musical gear but you shouldn't cut corners. Check out for bundles, interface and mic
in one or so and be prepared to pay about 200-400$ (That's what I paid here in Sweden)
for mic, interface and audio program. It will cost more if you get some budget stuff
and then have to replace it after a year or so coz your not satisfied. So my point is
make a new recording of ' Midnight Angel Kiss' with as good as no reverb and post it as
a demo and let us listen to You and not the reverb tank and/or echo chamber because
its a good song just not in its best performance.
Good luck with your songwriting,
- Martin
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@ ecasasmusic: a Radiohead comparison? I'll take that any day...thanks!! Yeah, that IS a great song. Really bittersweet, which is what that band does so well.
@ Martinswede: Thank you so much for your encouraging words and suggestions. I agree about Audacity. I really like how easy it is to use and I pretty much know it like the back of my hand after using it for about 7 years. But, yes, it clearly has its limitations.
And I'm loving the Moody Blues comparison too. Forever Autumn certainly is a lovely song, one that captures the kind of sentiment I was going for in my song.
So I've taken your advice and re-recorded Midnight Angel Kiss using Mixcraft. I didn't add any reverb to the vocals, just a little to the guitar track (probably too much, on reflection). I downloaded a de esser which seems to have worked well, but I can't really judge it for myself anymore, having listened to the song about 50 times already today (not including when I was singing it several times during recording).
So, here it is again: https://soundcloud.com/laquila-409411957/midnight-angel-kiss
Hopefully, those who listened to the first few tortured versions will be pleased with the improvement.
cheers all,
L
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Hi again!
I listened to your track and my first thought was that something had gone
wrong. I plugged in my headphones and it didn't go away. I re listened your
old track in headphones and there it was again. There is some phase distortion
on your track. Have you used a chorus, flanger, phaser on the guitar? Or both
guitar and vocals. A warbly sound with coming and going piercing treble.
It takes the focus away from both music and lyrics. I'm surprised I didn't
hear it on my first listen but there might have been a lot of background noise
in my apartment at the moment.
If you've used some effect try without it, or as follows, is my suggestion.
I hope I didn't come across as someone who dislikes modulation effects, though
chorus can be a bit too much for me, and certainly not that I dislike your music.
I do like your music otherwise I wouldn't bother. My advice is that you apply the
50% 'rule'. If you think some addition of effects, eq, reverb or pan is good take it
down to 50% of the setting. So instead of chorus depth 7, try 3,5. That way you
have some control over your sound. Less is sometimes more.
Good luck with you music making,
- Martin
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Hello,
Great song! Love the flanger sort of effect you've put on the guitar here, it really matches the chords you have gone for.
It sort of reminds me a bit of the style of Ray LaMontagne, which is defiantly a good thing for me!
Keep up the good composing.
Cheers,
Henry O'Farrell
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Hi,
Song flows nicely and its catchy.
Lots said about production which as you address them will help polish the recording for sure.
:)
Neil
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Hi, I listened to the new version and while the first version wasn't perfect I do prefer it to this new one. Still a good song but Something in the recording has made the song less 'human' for me and more synthetic. I think Martin heard a similar thing. I would strip off all the effects and then add a touch here and there if needed. Your voice was fine in the first version, it needs very little help IMHO.
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LOL!
Back to the drawing board then. I know what you're saying, Steng...I listened to it again after I had a break from the song and it sounded strange to me too. I think I know what I might be doing wrong now after spending several hours this morning working away at a different song with Mixcraft 8 (which I'll post to the board on Sunday when my 'time count' resets).
Thanks Neil and Henry for the nice remarks about the song itself. And, again, thanks Martin for the helpful advice.
I'm sure I'll get there eventually.
cheers,
L
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Ok. Last take (for now). I don't think it's going to get any better than this any time soon.
I've cut out most of the reverb, except for where I felt it needed it at the climax.
Once again, I invite the people who've been helpful so far to pick it to shreds ;D
cheers,
L
https://soundcloud.com/laquila-409411957/midnight-angel-kiss
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Not sure which version I've listened to relative to any of the above :D I liked it a lot though. I don't agree with what Martin said about your vocal - I think your voice sounds great on it. Possibly not as up front as it should be due to production issues, maybe that's what he meant.
I'm not experienced enough to give you pointers about sound engineering, I'll leave that to others. If I have a reservation, it's around the lyrics - a bit simplistic for my taste. 'I want you to be happy with me or without me' - is that true? I can't tell you if it is or not, but it struck me as a cliché. That said, most of the lyric is solid, consistent in its message.
What stands out generally is the edgy, driving guitarwork and melody. I can see this being a hit with a lot of people.
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Thanks Moomond,
You wouldn't have heard the earlier versions because I've deleted them from soundcloud. Gone to reverb heaven.
But points noted about putting the voice forward and glad you like the driving guitar - I really like that aspect myself.
I hear you on the cliched lyric. You've picked out the line that troubled me the most. No, of course I didn't want her to be happy without me but in the context of the song (it was written as a goodbye to my partner of a couple of years after she called it quits) it made some kind of sense. And it allowed me to use the 'even if' phrase which I felt lent even more poignancy to the moment. And it was an echo of U2's song, which had been a thing for us...of course, when I wrote it I never meant for it to become quite this public! So glad it has though.
Thanks again for the honest feedback. Much appreciated.
cheers,
L
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Ok, that puts a slightly different context on it. Writing songs to somebody is difficult, in my experience - it puts that extra screen between the truth and what the listener hears of 'what do I want him/her to think'. I've been in the position of looking back on songs and doctoring them because I was worried about what their object would think, but I usually end up reverting to what was truer before I had to think about it.
Of course, not everybody is striving to achieve a totally soul-baring, painfully honest lyric, so it's your call about what you're going for. For myself, I take a probably twisted enjoyment from hearing people express those things that you're not supposed to feel. (Paint it Black by the Rolling Stones would be a classic extreme example - although admitting ambivalence to how your ex feels in your absence probably doesn't necessitate quite the same level of brutal self-exposure, so you're in luck :))
Also about DAWs: I was told early on to just find one that has a good reputation (check online best-lists), and stick with it. I'm sure you learned using Audacity that it takes a long time to get to know its ins and outs and become comfortable and efficient with it, the same will be true for any new one, so best not to have to put yourself through that process over and over. I got a copy of Cubase 5 last summer when I started working on a few songs, and haven't felt the need to try anything else, so I can recommend.
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I like the originality of the melody and phrasing here. It's hooky and has drive and energy. Nice song concept (though not obivous to most people I am sure!)
While we're on production (sorry!) I did think the guitar was a bit "toppy" and could do wiith some of the highs rolled off. For the vocals I would like to hear your normal voice come though a bit more in the verse and maybe leave the double tracked vocal for the chorus.
But the song is good which is what really matters.
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Lovely song, oozing melancholy. Not sure about the vocal effect as I think it gets in the way way of what sounds like a fine vocal to me. I definitely wouldn't say that you can't sing - quite the opposite!
Don't know what the snowball mic is like for sound, but I'd recommend making sure you use a decent mic like a Shure SM57 or SM58.
But nevertheless, still a well written and well performed song, which are far more important criteria than the recording quality IMHO. :)
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I'll echo what's been said about the production quality, but the song itself and performances are very solid. I think adding a little something like a tambourine and maybe even a bass guitar would do wonders for this.
Overall, any negatives I have are based on the production quality, not the song. In other words - If this is the demo, I'd love to hear the studio version.
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Thanks mate. I'd love to get a studio version up but I can't see that happening soon.
I'm learning the rigours of the DAW I'm using now (Mixcraft 8, upgrading from Audacity which I used for the first few takes of this) and am making slow but steady progress.
I just bought a new mic and hopefully that will improve the sound on future recordings. But, in the words of some of my fellow Aussie rockers, it's a long way to the top :)
cheers,
L
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Just listened again and it's a big imptovement!! well done, regarding the reverb, I am a fan of reverb..just love it!!
the reverb you are using seems to make things sound a bit boxy...try a hi pass filter on the reverb to lighten it a bit,
best, Kevin :)
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I've downloaded a high pass filter and applied it to the song. It does sound a little better.
Thanks, Kevin. See how much you've taught me in a few short weeks?
cheers,
L
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I've downloaded a high pass filter and applied it to the song. It does sound a little better.
Thanks, Kevin. See how much you've taught me in a few short weeks?
cheers,
L
anytime mate :) :) :) :)
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I'm listening to the modified version. I would echo what others have said - it's a strong song and I think it's well played and sung but it needs something else in the arrangement and production needs work. I was in your position 4 years ago and it is a steep learning curve. This forum has a vast resource of knowledgeable people who are happy to help. Don't be afraid to ask.
M
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I like this guitar song a great deal. The song is pretty catchy and has a dreamy atmosphere. Very good.
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Hello,
The songwriter is there. This gives of a similar vibe to 'California dreamin' ' and so I would suggest a similar treatment with production if you decide to develop this further. As a song , it lacks a contrasting middle 8 to contrast with the very strong melodic ideas presented. At the moment, the reverb doesn't allow the song to be admired in all of it's beauty. However, that will come eventually.
Cheers
Paul
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Welcome to the forum - I'm new here myself. I'm with you on the production side, and I'm struggling to realise the songs that I can hear in my head. This is a good song though, with a great melody and lyrics. Keep at it, and you'll get there. You've come to the right place in my opinion.
Mike