The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Bar => Topic started by: S.T.C on September 09, 2016, 11:06:27 PM
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Simple answer ,not entirely i would imagine , but is there a place for the likes of Dylan ,Paul Simon ,David Bowie, cat stevens etc ...in the commercial songwriting world.
I mean ,i don't think the songwriting ' brains' of the past, rather like great hollywood actors exist anymore......it's rather a rare talent,linked to a particular period of time. :)
People like Adele write songs for the time we live in,and have a talent of being able to sing benign lyrics in a modern and stylish manner....
It's about the wider public ,being willing and able to embrace some new genius , a wordsmith of extraordinary ability ,and making them mainstream.
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I know what you're saying STC, but I would argue that there are still great songwriters out there - although their popular appeal may not be what the likes of Paul Simon once enjoyed.
In fact, Paul Simon's still making records and writing very good songs. I don't know what it is though, but the magic of those 1970s songs and records just isn't quite there. Was it a quality of the times when those songs were written & recorded? I don't know.
But if you're after quality songwriting, check out Rufus Wainwright or John Grant or Ray Lamontagne or Laura Marling. Those guys are still kicking up musical and lyrical dust and raising the bar for the rest of us :) Does the 'commercial' world want them? Not really... I can't say that actually bothers me though. I mean, the commercial world doesn't really 'want' classical music either, but it doesn't stop it being as brilliant and worthy now as ever.
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Tbh songs that show a proper story require an attention span, and a free imagination. In our modern world of over stimulation, people train themselves to switch their attention every 20 seconds to some new rubbish and leave themselves no time for their brain to breahte - that's when your imagination starts working. So songs with story or atmosphere only really reach the few of us who covet our attention and creativity.
So we have to work with the current climate - when theres a snowstorm going on, you can't expect all your freidns to come act as if it's beach weather, just becauseyou remember that was much more fun back in the summer - they'll think your crazy, and you'll go die of hypothermia alone. Strategies I see to deal with this climate is that I want to 1. Tap into dancing because no-one ever seems to get bored of that and EDM is obviously a craze for a reason - you can make something with a real message that also has a beat you can dance to. It's a good challenge sometimes. 2. Look at it like a punk - turn the socail problem into your material. People feel dissillusioned with life - more teenagers are depressed than ever and there has been a link made between social media and depressions (plus all sorts of other mental illness), but they're not really making the connection themselves, or if they are it seems unescapable.
As a young person of generation z, I like to think that I will create a new crazed counterculture of dancing punk luddites. Seems very currently relevant but also highly meanignful.
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I dunno,there are so many outside influence that will have a bearing on an individual's answer to the question.
For example,someone my age would be inclined to say the golden age of pop/rock is over,but that could be down to simple nostalgia. The other thing I find very common in those north of 35 is,they stop seeking out new music and only listen to what they liked in their youth,so that demographic wouldn't have a scooby doo if there are good new songs out there or not.
Certainly it seems to me,the artists who were the most influential for my generation,have no modern parallel in terms of depths of material or longevity,though that last one can't be proven for another 40 years. :D
So as I said at the start of this ramble...I dunno,but maybe. :P
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Here's a link that I recently ran across.....it is a little dated but an interesting read....http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/12/great-songwriters-who-are-they-and-why-havent-there-been-any-for-the-last-20-years.html
Incidentally 3quarksdaily.com is an outstanding daily read......
igg
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This is just my opinion,the World has changed,people are more comfortable,We are easily distracted,
are tension span are shorter.Music is more about sampling and Movies(Films) are about remarking old Movies,we are more anti-sociable,and self obsessed,and Lot of people want a hit and fame and money.
that's just my opinion.
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Here's a link that I recently ran across.....it is a little dated but an interesting read....http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/12/great-songwriters-who-are-they-and-why-havent-there-been-any-for-the-last-20-years.html
Incidentally 3quarksdaily.com is an outstanding daily read......
igg
Interesting read ,i read an article, that said the music industry as known for the last 10 years , there's no great songwriters around.
I think David Bowie should have got special mention , those 4/5 albums he put out around the time he was with The Spiders from Mars...Ziggy Stardust etc....are loaded with gems.no one else could have conjoured up...
I'm sure it's a generational thing....some younger ones probably think Ed Sheeran is a modern day wonder ....he's not though.
Personally speaking , i suspect ,the decades around the 70's were a more fertile time for creative people ,idealism ,hope , fashion ,inspiration. a desire to create something of substance,longlasting poetic and beautiful ...a lot of musicians had classical training ,they had the tools to express themselves.
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Yeah, I wasn't keen on the top songwriters list. David Bowie definitely deserved a spot.
I am 18 and I hate Ed Sheeran. People enjoy him but I don't think there's anyone who really thinks he's a wonder. The people who adore Ed Sheeran are generally people who I see as having no music taste, and not because they like singers that I hate or anything, just because they can't name anything that hasn't been in the recent top 10 as a favourite song, which means to me that they don't search out their music, therefore have gained no taste.
And I swear most of the big stars of the 70s were not classically trained. Someone was telling me today about Jimi Hendrix starting on a one stringed guitar he found in a bin. I dunno if THAT is true but what I do know is that he wasn't classically trained haha. I just don't think many people take a lot of time to think deeply these days, and I think people are focused on surface level stuff in life, and I think they are distracted. That's where half my inspiration comes from these days... wanting to shake people and wake them the fuck up. And myself. That is absolutely what my Dance Desperately song is about, and also Jehnny less directly. I gotta try and get better and prove you guys wrong about my generation haha.
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I dont think great songwriting is gone and i dont think it will ever be gone, i still enjoy listening to new songs the same way i enjoy listening to songs from years back and the reason is, great songwriting.
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Depends how you define great songwriting. A lot of modern music has excellent songwriting behind it but it's always mixed up with so much rubbish I guess I don't look hard enough for it. Occasionally though I will hear a new release and be blown away.
Great songwriting isn't just the successful stuff of course. There's plenty of it on this forum and my current play list is made up almost exclusively of members.
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I'm really against this muso snobbery of assuming that commercial songs aren't great and that anyone who writes a hit today isn't as 'great' as those of previous era. People were probably criticising the likes of the 'greats' mentioned here during their day too and comparing them rather unfavourably to whoever came before them - it's like football, boxing, films (delete or choose as appropriate. There's a misplaced yearning for a golden era when beer tasted better and sunshine was brighter....
To argue that there isn't 'great' songwriters around is premised entirely on one's own tastes and preferences (subjective) but if we are to define 'great' as in how many records are sold (objective) then yes there are many 'great' songwriters still out there and they are churning out hit after hit and making a lot of money. It's no coincidence that Stargate, Max Martin, Bonnie McKee and other songwriting teams have an impressive a catalogue of hits to their name - they are damn good (dare I say 'great' at their craft and trade).
You don't have to like someone's songs or music to acknowledge their worth as a songwriter - I deplore quite a lot of Paul Simon's songs and even more of Prince's but they are both 'great' writers. Also, I think Ed Sheeran's record sales do their own talking on how good he is.....
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Here's a link that I recently ran across.....it is a little dated but an interesting read....http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/12/great-songwriters-who-are-they-and-why-havent-there-been-any-for-the-last-20-years.html
Incidentally 3quarksdaily.com is an outstanding daily read......
igg
That dude has many lawns that he needs people to get off. :D
He lost me at the point where he reckoned CCR had only 5 good songs.
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The great songwriters of bygone decades, wrote 'classics' many artists and bands managed a one hit wonder song.....since the 90's i'm not sure how many songs qualify...this is what the post is about....it's not subjective at all.it's not about sales..it's about the craft.
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The great songwriters of bygone decades, wrote 'classics' many artists and bands managed a one hit wonder song.....since the 90's i'm not sure how many songs qualify...this is what the post is about....it's not subjective at all.it's not about sales..it's about the craft.
When you ask for opinion,it's always gonna be subjective. :D
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The great songwriters of bygone decades, wrote 'classics' many artists and bands managed a one hit wonder song.....since the 90's i'm not sure how many songs qualify...this is what the post is about....it's not subjective at all.it's not about sales..it's about the craft.
Happy birthday is the most covered song in the world does that make it the greatest 'classic'? Some may have had one hit wonders but that's still an incredible achievement - if it was easy we'd have Grammy winners and on here! Moreover, people like Calvin Harris, Max Martin, Bonnie McKee have written hit after hit after hit. That's not a one hit wonder. Clearly they are 'great' writers.
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Then you should put Stock, Aitkin and Waterman into the se box. They obviously had something too.
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I didn't say the 'greats' weren't great - others have said modern writers aren't.....
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Yeah, I defintiely think there are great songwriters about you just have to actually be looking a bit - there are amazing songwriters out right now, you can't say they don't exist just cos you haven't heard them, and you're too busy worshipping the past to look.
And there are definitely songs of merit in the charts too, there are songs I love in the charts...
And yep, Ed Sheeran does well I just hate him haha. But I was having a conversation on another forum today about how I'm not a big fan of the Beatles. They're significant but I don't find them particularly earth shattering - they're significant mostly cos they were so ridiculously popular. I'm not gonna be blown away just because somethings popular and I'm supposed to like it. (Disclaimer here - I much prefer the Beatles to Ed sheeran and I know its rather silly to be mentioning the two in the same point). Mostly I see the Beatles as an important step towards things actually getting really interesting haha.
*Helena soon after this post got shot by a Beatlemaniac assassin and her obituary read: "not as earth shattering as John Lennon's assasination"*
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Hmmm, it's really interesting seeing what different people think makes a 'great' song.
For example, Max Martin's hit after hit after hit does not make him a great songwriter in my opinion. It doesn't make him a bad one either. It makes him a highly successful producer with access to in-demand performers who are a crucial part of the success he enjoys. I won't pretend I know many of his songs, but I don't consider them 'great'. They're repetitive, predictable and somewhat insipid - in my opinion at any rate.
Mr Blobby was a massive hit, but I think we can all agree, it's not a great song. Are there great writers who've had no hits? I would say so, but I'm working from a different definition of 'great' to some of you.
I think what STC is noticing is that there's an absence of a more 'developed' kind of songwriting these days, including more interesting harmonic progressions, less repetition and a few more surprises. More Steely Dan and less Ed Sheeran I suppose.
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The great songwriters of the past, the one's who created hits back then produced great songs , and it is for this, that they are revered and remembered .
All these hit makers your mentioning will be/ are forgotten very quickly as will the hits they make..for they know how to manipulate the music audience out there....before bands had to make music for an educated public ,or at leas tone that had experienced great songwriting.....i know i'm right. ;D
Sales mean tosh...it's not a barometer of anything.
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*Helena soon after this post got shot by a Beatlemaniac assassin and her obituary read: "not as earth shattering as John Lennon's assasination"*
You see great songwriting will never be gone, you got more to this dont you, i mean lyrics right.
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I think what STC is noticing is that there's an absence of a more 'developed' kind of songwriting these days, including more interesting harmonic progressions, less repetition and a few more surprises.
There's also a noticeable absence of the lute in music these days but I wouldn't argue that the only 'great'musicians were medieval minstrels and bards.......
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All these hit makers your mentioning will be/ are forgotten very quickly as will the hits they make..for they know how to manipulate the music audience out there....before bands had to make music for an educated public ,or at leas tone that had experienced great songwriting.....
So basically anyone who likes Max Martin's songs are stupid? Right outta the Tory manifesto there and demonstrably wrong. I'm a huge Max Martin fan and I'm practically a fucking genius...... ;)
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All these hit makers your mentioning will be/ are forgotten very quickly as will the hits they make..for they know how to manipulate the music audience out there....before bands had to make music for an educated public ,or at leas tone that had experienced great songwriting.....
So basically anyone who likes Max Martin's songs are stupid? Right outta the Tory manifesto there and demonstrably wrong. I'm a huge Max Martin fan and I'm practically a fucking genius...... ;)
I never mentioned Max Martin ,TONE did...i like the dude ,i like the Swedish songwriting cartel ....but
they're not great , just good at what they do.
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There's also a noticeable absence of the lute in music these days but I wouldn't argue that the only 'great'musicians were medieval minstrels and bards.......
You've (deliberately?) missed my point though. I'm talking about songcraft, not instrumentation. You can write a concerto on a synthesizer or a punk rock shout-along on a cello. I'm saying that the songwriters STC is nostalgic for had more progressive musical attitudes, which are reflected in their songs, which in turn is one of the qualities that makes those songs enduring - or great, if you will.
Only time will tell I suppose, but I think there's a reason why Stock Aitken & Waterman aren't considered great writers, but Prince is, despite the former having more hit singles.
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No offence but for anyone who thinks great songwriting is gone especially songwriters is probably the real reason why the music world is control by people like yous.
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All these hit makers your mentioning will be/ are forgotten very quickly as will the hits they make..for they know how to manipulate the music audience out there....before bands had to make music for an educated public ,or at leas tone that had experienced great songwriting.....
So basically anyone who likes Max Martin's songs are stupid? Right outta the Tory manifesto there and demonstrably wrong. I'm a huge Max Martin fan and I'm practically a fucking genius...... ;)
I never mentioned Max Martin ,TONE did...i like the dude ,i like the Swedish songwriting cartel ....but
they're not great , just good at what they do.
I mentioned him and you said all the hit makers I mentioned wrote songs fora more or less dumber public than the 'greats'. The clear logic of that is that anyone who likes a Max Martin song is less educated.....
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Why is writing a song that has some loser crying over a photo of their ex something worthy of a 'great' but writing hits that have millions of people dancing in clubs, streets etc isn't worthy of being 'great'?
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It's got nothing to do with crying vs dancing, and I get the feeling you're being deliberately obtuse...
You're forgetting that a massive portion of pop music has been dance music: disco, abba's dancing queen; rock n roll was popular in no small part because it feel so physical.
As for your logic, you've honed in on one word in an otherwise interesting argument and turned it into a straw man. Whether or not you agree with STC, it's hard to deny that pop music has become more repetitive and less musically complex in the 21st century. It's up to you to decide whether you think it's a good or a bad thing, but I happen to like more variety in a song.
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I love stuff that I can dance to. Mostly I like to dance to The Smiths. I also like to dance to some EDM. But not all of it. I hate the fact that a huge amount of EDM has th most predictable bloody build up thing going on it's practically making fun of itself. But any artist who fails to make any songs that make me wanna move... they're probably not winning me as a long term fan.
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Liking repetition is hardly a barometer of educational ability..... nor is it a sign of lazy or substandard songwriting. Hook/ear worms are just as allusive in songwriting today than ever surely. They get people reved up and dancing etc just as much as a nice harmony touches the right spot for others and stirs their feelings. One isn't greater than the other - both are an incredible talent. Yes Dylan, Simon etc can write amazing and 'great' songs but can they get thousands of people in a night club in Amsterdam yelling out the 'hook' to a 130+ bpm song layered with synth ear worm after synth ear worm??? Probably not. Those who do the latter are surely 'great' in their own, admittedly, different way....
And it's not a straw person argument by any stretch of the imagination. It's questioning the elitist premise of the argument by pointing out that I (and many many others know) like modern songwriters but we aren't stupid.
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I don't think anyone's calling you or other listeners stupid - at least I don't think STC is and I know I'm not. What I am saying is that pop in this century is musically simpler than pop in the 60s-90s, which I find less interesting.
With regard to the ability to string a lot of 'ear worms' together constituting greatness, I beg to differ from you here. An earworm isn't necessarily a great piece of music. It might be, it might not be. Saturday Night by Whigfield is an earworm, but it's not a great song. Abba on the other hand had some great songs that were full of earworms.
The crux of my argument here is this: popularity does not equate with greatness.
Look at the art world. Many 'great' artists were completely ignored, ridiculed or misunderstood during their lives and never made a penny.
Leonard Cohen was (according to the critics) the next James Joyce, but his novels didn't sell. So he became a songwriter instead.
Calvin Harris may be regarded by future generations as a genius. I happen to think he won't.
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I think we're actually orientating towards a common, or at least similar, position but from dichotomous ends of a spectrum perhaps. What I'm trying to argue I guess is that there's many forms of 'greatness' - greatness can be complex like the kind of music written by the writers you've mentioned but greatness can also be simple and non-complex like some of the music of the people I've mentioned. I like to appreciate the greatness is both styles whether one is more commercially viable than the other or not but I can't abide by the argument that there are no great songwriters today simply because songwriting is easier, less developed, less complex. I guess I'm wondering that if popularity doesn't define greatness what does? Memorability? Some sportspeople have had great single performances and been remembered as greats because of that. Others have had howlers and been remembered for that - does they fact they're remembered make them 'great'? How much you, I, [insert anyone's name here] like them? Well in that case every and anyone has a claim to greatness I guess.
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I think you nailed it. Greatness seems to be tied into an enduring popularity, one that feeds into the culture. We'll have to wait another 30+ years to know who today's greats are I suppose.
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I can't argue with any of that STC, nor would I want to. For me greatness is when a song grabs me by the scruff of the neck and makes feel something. It doesn't matter when or where it was made, nor what genre it's in.
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There's great song-writing happening out there these days, no question. In fact there's so much more of it, so many more ways for it to be released, so many more channels and vehicles and platforms, much of it probably gets lost, or only picked up by a few people.
This is interesting:
The other thing I find very common in those north of 35 is,they stop seeking out new music and only listen to what they liked in their youth,so that demographic wouldn't have a scooby doo if there are good new songs out there or not.
I'm kind of guilty as charged. But it's not because I don't give a Scooby, it's simply because there are only so many hours in the day. Every album I buy means slightly less listening time in my future for something else, after all, I don't only listen to an album once. By the time one gets into one's fifties one owns a lot of albums, CDs, downloads. I'm not going to give up listening to Dylan or CCR or John Prine or Kristofferson or Paul Simon or The Beatles or any of the people that I already love just on the off-chance there'll be something good out there. I do listen to the wireless enough to stumble across new people - Jeffrey Foucault, Darryl Scott, Harry Manx all spring to mind recently - but I'm not going actively looking for it. I suspect I won't listen again to all the albums that I already have in my collection - which is quite sad really.
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The other thing I find very common in those north of 35 is,they stop seeking out new music and only listen to what they liked in their youth,so that demographic wouldn't have a scooby doo if there are good new songs out there or not.
This is totally true. Why is this done? Please listen to some modern music, people. Even if you just stick to genres you already like, the idea of being a songwriter in the current age but yet dismissing all songwriters in the current age (even though they're pros and you're not) is ludicrous. Being older doesn't give you the excuse to be lazy in searching out new music (when music is your passion, you should always be looking, that's non negotiable) - you can be lazy as a young person too and stick to the charts, or what your friends listen to etc - being unadventurous with music is not about age its about laziness.
Harsh much? Sorry. I think I made a bit of a dramatic turn around on this thread - but as much as I see where the sentiment comes from... I find it rather important to keep up with current music, and rather ignorant not to. I will help you though. Here are some great ways I find new music:
This guy reviews new albums coming out. I find his videos quite entertaining and he knows a lot about music. He has a playlist of reviews of favourite albums and organises reviews into genres too, so its very helpful:
The NME is now free and you can pick it up in a few places including HMV and Topman I beleive. The writing is pretty bland, but I skip through it quickly and pick out artists to look up that look sort of interesting.
BBC Radio 1 Breakfast Show. You can listen to a bit while eating breakfast, or going to work and it's not much of a sacrifice or a commitment. But it will keep you up to date with the general pop goings on (and some random more alternative stuff they will suddenly throw in just to keep it interesting - I think it's a very well done playlist, usually better than most radio shows that just make me sick of everything). And if you miss it but still wanna listen - you can use iplayer! The shows in the evening are pretty odd. The one when I was coming back from school was just awful... Annie Mac's show is after that and has some interesting EDM if your ever feeling curious, but Breakfast is a nice bet to get a good overview of what's currently popular, and some little interesting tit bits they're trying to turn people on to.
Total Guitar Magazine is fun to read for guitar stuff. Nice full tabs of songs at the end and all. Lots of excercises, but also will do band interviews, and a page on up and coming bands. I have found some really enjoyable stuff there.
I haven't tried Radio 6 Music... but I've heard that some of my more alternative bands I found through the above sources have been on there...
Actually look for stuff. Search up "best new indie bands 2015". I did that in July. Find the baby bands that you can see for under £10 before they get on the radio at all. That's great fun. And follow them on facebook. Then sort of follow facebooks reccomendations based on those bands. Oh and talking about facebook get the "bands in town" app on facebook. Make sure you give it a list of all your fav bands and it will tell you when they're doing gigs in your area. But ALSO, it will give you gig reccomendations based on things that are similar - NEW BANDS. And talking about gigs - look at some cool small venues near you and look at whats on.
Oh and when you get turned on to these bands and you go to buy their stuff - check your Amazon reccomendations when the stuffs in your basket.
All of those are good ways to find new stuff. You should invest some time. It's an investment in expanding your musical horizons, which I think should be important to songwriters. In this internet age with all these resources, there's no excuse.
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Please listen to some modern music, people. Even if you just stick to genres you already like, the idea of being a songwriter in the current age but yet dismissing all songwriters in the current age (even though they're pros and you're not) is ludicrous. Being older doesn't give you the excuse to be lazy in searching out new music (when music is your passion, you should always be looking, that's non negotiable) - you can be lazy as a young person too and stick to the charts, or what your friends listen to etc - being unadventurous with music is not about age its about laziness.
AMEN!
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Wow.
It's not difficult to find new stuff - it's quite easy. But the key thing is this - say I have 45 minutes to listen to an album; do I listen to an album I love, that means something to me, that moves me, that takes me back to a good time, a sad time, or maybe even creates a new special time, that inspires me to write or learn to play the guitar better, that I know has stood the test of time (for me personally, and quite probably millions of others), or a hundred other positive things that I can guarantee? Or do I risk those 45 minutes on something that might do none of the above?
I probably have a thousand albums in my collection that I know are worthy of my 45 minutes. I'm sure there are a million albums that I don't have that would also be worthy. But I'm also damn sure there are a hundred million that aren't.
So how do I spend my 45 minutes? Stick or twist?
Another factor, as I alluded to above, is that there are probably not enough 45 minute listening blocks in the rest of my life to properly listen to all the albums again that I already own. I hate the thought that I might never sit down and listen to Axis Bold as Love or The Allman Brothers at Fillmore East or Highway 61 Revisited or The Village Green Appreciation Society again. That's not something I going to trade anything I might read about in the NME or hear on Radio 1 for.
But as I also alluded to above - I do listen to new artists, I do "discover" new albums and acts. I have the balance just right (for me - albeit, clearly not for you) - there are a few radio shows, some YouTube journeys, and a bunch of musical friends and bandmates that keep me in new material. I go and watch a lot of live gigs. I know a whole host of songwriters - that's what we do, we support each other, we sit down and we share people (old and new) we've discovered, and we trade songs, and we go to open mics and acoustic nights. That's why I said I know great song-writing is still alive and well. I don't see how that's dismissing all songwriters in the current age - but hey ho.
Sorry for being so lazy and ludicrous! :o
Oh, and the answer is, I stick nine times out of ten and twist once. It's a good ratio. For me. But then I only do this stuff for fun.
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I think it's worth pointing out something that the under 25's probably fail to appreciate about the over 35's and that's pressures on time.
When you get to your mid 30s you suddenly have a whole lot less time to spend on everything, because your partner and kids have expanded (not literally!) to fill pretty much every available gap. Of course, some people stick to the music they liked when they were 17, but then some people stick to the EVERYTHING they liked when they were 17, and never widen their horizons. It's not an age thing per se, it's a temperament thing.
Personally, I'm always listening to new music, but I'm sorry to report that less than 1% of it is ever likely to be played on radio 1. In fact, if it wasn't for my strange fascination with Die Antwoord, that would be 0% :p New music for me is about exploring what I like, not wading through what I don't. That's not to say I don't stretch myself; I do. But I generally dislike the vast amounts of compression, quantisation and tuning on EVERY DAMN INSTRUMENT AND VOICE in much pop music, particularly the electronic stuff. With all the humanity stripped away, it's not only bland, but the compression literally hurts my ears after a while. It's like listening to metal all over again.
So while I agree that finding new music is important, I don't think it has to be 'new' as in what the radio 1 producers decide is exciting. It can be Debussy or Duke Ellington or Die Antwoord. Just because it may have been composed 100 years ago doesn't stop it being new to me ;)
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die antwoord are fabulous! thanks tone for reminding me of a modern band i do realy like
i have listened to a awful lot of music in my life & you do get to a point where you think 'ive heard all this before & better & im fed up wasting all this time trying to stay up to date when i just dont like most of it any more'
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I'm gonna give a shout out to Against the Current as a modern but lesser known band. I came across them a good while back through initially seeing their cover of the 1975 Chocolate on YouTube and got into a lot of their covers and I'm digging their original songs now.
Also, I think there should be more appreciation for the lyric writing in modern pop music. People may not like the production, style etc but the lyric writing in some of them is exceptional and as good as the 'greats' and may I add without trying to offend anyone of a standard that many on here would give their right arm for. Yes some of it is repetitive and repeats the hook quite a bit but songs like 'Cold Water' and 'Closer' are very well crafted lyrically even if some don't rate the music/production.
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Being 64, I grew up listening to the songs from what some have pointed to as a golden age that has passed. But it seems to me the folks that grew up listening in the 20s and 30s would think that was the golden age of songwriting. The bottom line is it's all subjective, tied to our points of reference for what's a great song and what's not. For example, when I compare Simons' 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover with Princes' 1999......well.....there's no comparison there at all for me. But both were major hits and widely accepted as great songs.
I don't listen to nor buy any music anymore, old or new, and haven't for many years. The only tunes I hear are the soundtracks of TV commercials and what songs I listen to posted here. No radio, no CDs, no iTunes downloads. Nothing. Why is that? I dunno. I really don't think I'm missing out on anything spectacular........do you?
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Well I'm glad at least Pop Todd agrees with me haha.
I do get that as the laziest student on Earth with no sense of priority I spend far too much time on these things. Though I wasn't saying to listen to whole albums of random things. Just pick up one of the sources on occasion, look up a song from an artist. Skip through a few, see if you like the vibe. When you find a vibe you do like - then maybe you can try an album. Looking up a couple songs takes like 15 minutes. And as I said, as a young person I can do the same thing whenI decide to listen to an album. I could listen to a Smiths album AGAIN or I can make myself listen to something from one of the other bands I've heard of from one of the sources. It seems like an annoying sacrifice to me too. I do it though, and eventually I find something that I want to listen to over and over. And the experience was worth it.
But yes I sympathise that I have more time. Just the fact that you can only do less of something, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it at all.
Personally, I'm always listening to new music, but I'm sorry to report that less than 1% of it is ever likely to be played on radio 1. In fact, if it wasn't for my strange fascination with Die Antwoord, that would be 0% :p New music for me is about exploring what I like, not wading through what I don't. That's not to say I don't stretch myself; I do. But I generally dislike the vast amounts of compression, quantisation and tuning on EVERY DAMN INSTRUMENT AND VOICE in much pop music, particularly the electronic stuff. With all the humanity stripped away, it's not only bland, but the compression literally hurts my ears after a while. It's like listening to metal all over again.
Haha Radio 1 is not admittedly where I find my favourite new bands. I have some songs I enjoy there, so I think its good fun, but mostly I feel that its just important to keep in the loop. It's like market research. That's why its like 3rd on my list. I haven't actually tuned in all summer... It's really just something I do when going to school. But as you can see from my long list (which does leave out things), there are so many ways that do not involve Radio 1.
OMG though I agree with the over production of everything in modern music. Its bloody stifling. So many songs I hear that just feel like they are drowning under this artifical haze that seeming to make my bloody brain hazy cos I don't seem to be able to distinguish any personality in the music through it. I have bands I've liked be ruined by getting "better" producers... like, fuck I liked their imperfections - they are not robots, stop that! There are times that I am enjoying the smoothness of modern tracks... and then there are times where I just want to rampage into studios across the world and smash their computers over the head with a giant 80s mixer desk and scream "are we humans? or are we dance music machines?!". Though its not just dance music it happens in lots of genres. But there are also bands who make modern production sound very human - they obvously have producers who understand that having everything blend into each other because its so fucking compressed that its practically one thing is not at all sonically interesting. I enjoy these bands and there are plenty of them too.
Don't diss the whole genre of metal though. Metal can be really enjoyable and certainly emotive. plenty of people get metal wrong though. Metalheads get so obsessed about speed... speed does not equal quality. So yeah theres plenty of sucky metal for that reason. But there's some metal I enjoy. I'd never write off a genre.
So while I agree that finding new music is important, I don't think it has to be 'new' as in what the radio 1 producers decide is exciting. It can be Debussy or Duke Ellington or Die Antwoord. Just because it may have been composed 100 years ago doesn't stop it being new to me ;)
I also agree with this. I do this a lot too.
Being 64, I grew up listening to the songs from what some have pointed to as a golden age that has passed. But it seems to me the folks that grew up listening in the 20s and 30s would think that was the golden age of songwriting. The bottom line is it's all subjective, tied to our points of reference for what's a great song and what's not. For example, when I compare Simons' 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover with Princes' 1999......well.....there's no comparison there at all for me. But both were major hits and widely accepted as great songs.
I don't listen to nor buy any music anymore, old or new, and haven't for many years. The only tunes I hear are the soundtracks of TV commercials and what songs I listen to posted here. No radio, no CDs, no iTunes downloads. Nothing. Why is that? I dunno. I really don't think I'm missing out on anything spectacular........do you?
Yes you have missed everything.
This just seems like a miserable existence for a songwriter. How can you say you love music, so much that you spend your time making music and yet you won't listen to it? That is not love.
....................What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me.... that's in my head now >:(
Anyway, yep it's definitely subjective. I'm sure people who were 35 in the 80s had loved 60s classics but hated everything about the 80s. But there was so much good there.
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Over the past 7 days I've listened to two Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds albums, two Kate Bush albums (missed how good she was first time around), and the new albums by P J Harvey and Sigur Ros. Every once in a while I force myself to listen to the top 10. Some of it I like, most of it I don't.
For me music comes into two categories. Music I like and music I don't. The categories are not set in stone because, as Kate Bush illustrates, some people move from one category to the other over time.
There are some modern songs that I think are definitely in the great song category. Little Talks by Of Monsters and Men is one, PJ Harvey The Orange Monkey is another.
Taylor Swift, even though I'm not personally keen, is a great songwriter who will stand the tests of time.
Keith
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I think i should have asked , have the great songwriters gone...equally as contentious ;)
It's clear from what has been said, many feel it's subjective based on age,era in which you grew up and listened to music.
Great songwriting and great song writers have not disappeared ,maybe they have become less defined , the better songs probably remain under the radar for the most part.
I would stand by saying if there are great songwriters that stand up to the recognised masters...their not prolific writers.
And would also say that the 'bands' that have given us many great songs seem to be steep decline...it's the age of the 'artist' and artist writers, talent shows etc.
And yes Buc you're missing out..big time.
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Posted about her in the "Hits of 2016" thread, but I reiterate...
COURTNEY BARNETT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnIhzaDTd0)
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Posted about her in the "Hits of 2016" thread, but I reiterate...
COURTNEY BARNETT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnIhzaDTd0)
Invested some time. Not for me, I'm afraid.
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Radio 6 Music has some fantastic new music on. The Marc Riley show 7pm - 9pm is my favourite.
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I only have to hop onto this forum to listen to some great modern songwriters :)
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Over the past 7 days I've listened to two Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds albums, two Kate Bush albums (missed how good she was first time around), and the new albums by P J Harvey and Sigur Ros. Every once in a while I force myself to listen to the top 10. Some of it I like, most of it I don't.
For me music comes into two categories. Music I like and music I don't. The categories are not set in stone because, as Kate Bush illustrates, some people move from one category to the other over time.
There are some modern songs that I think are definitely in the great song category. Little Talks by Of Monsters and Men is one, PJ Harvey The Orange Monkey is another.
Taylor Swift, even though I'm not personally keen, is a great songwriter who will stand the tests of time.
Keith
Yaaas PJ Harvey is great. I think a lot of you would enjoy her. See there is totally stuff out there.
And I very much agree with the point that tastes change over time. Talking about Taylor Swift she was my favourite thing when I was about 13. I tried to get into rock a bit but it didn't really work. Somehow I got into more genres of music through Japanese music since I was wanting to learn Japanese. Got really into rock stuff there around 15, and just expanded into the usual 90s suspects and Metallica for some reason. Last year I started setting myself the challenge of properly exploring modern and old music and now I have a lot of crazy modern fusion bands I like and a great love for the post-punk era that I wasn't expecting. I have something I like from almost every decade and genre. Nobody really has that much of a varied taste by default - it requires a bit of work and open mindedness.
Will Taylor Swift stand the test of time? Maybe, I see where that's coming from. I'm not a fan of her new stuff on the current album, but she has had some lovely enjoyable songs in the past for sure, very catchy, very well put together. Well done country inspired pop. I had actually forgotten that I own her Red album and how much I used to enjoy it I sort of want to get it out now. I used to listen to her Speak Now album the most though but I don't actually own that I borrowed that and ripped it on my old broken computer.
Radio 6 Music has some fantastic new music on. The Marc Riley show 7pm - 9pm is my favourite.
Thanks for reccomending a show on Radio 6. I wasn't sure when to pop on there really. I just know my fav current band at the moment, Savages, did a long live set on there a little while ago so I was curious.
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Posted about her in the "Hits of 2016" thread, but I reiterate...
COURTNEY BARNETT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnIhzaDTd0)
Invested some time. Not for me, I'm afraid.
I get it. But personal preference does not detract from her skill as a songwriter.
Objectively, she is a great songwriter.
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Posted about her in the "Hits of 2016" thread, but I reiterate...
COURTNEY BARNETT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnIhzaDTd0)
Invested some time. Not for me, I'm afraid.
I get it. But personal preference does not detract from her skill as a songwriter.
Objectively, she is a great songwriter.
I like her.
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Posted about her in the "Hits of 2016" thread, but I reiterate...
COURTNEY BARNETT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnIhzaDTd0)
I want a thread that's more like "great artists of the 2010s" or something. Hits of just the year 2016 is too restrictive for me. I could do a time frame from 2012 to 2016. Most of what I'm listening to in 2016 at least came out in 2015 and the band is now touring.
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Taylor Swift is indeed a laudable candidate for the 'great' modern songwriter tag. I really hated her old stuff but can't get enough of her more recent stuff - coincidentally since she's teamed up with Max Martin.....
Some people prefer her older stuff but I find her more recent stuff has an edge put on it by Max Martin production. Regardless of the production, her composition and lyric writing is indeed exceptional. Take for example 'Blank Space' the lyrics to which read:
Verse
Nice to meet you, where you been?
I could show you incredible things
Magic, madness, heaven, sin
Saw you there and I thought
Oh my God, look at that face
You look like my next mistake
Love's a game, wanna play?
New money, suit and tie
I can read you like a magazine
Ain't it funny, rumors fly
And I know you heard about me
So hey, let's be friends
I'm dying to see how this one ends
Grab your passport and my hand
I can make the bad guys good for a weekend
Chorus
So it's gonna be forever
Or it's gonna go down in flames
You can tell me when it's over
If the high was worth the pain
Got a long list of ex-lovers
They'll tell you I'm insane
'Cause you know I love the players
And you love the game
'Cause we're young and we're reckless
We'll take this way too far
It'll leave you breathless
Or with a nasty scar
Got a long list of ex-lovers
They'll tell you I'm insane
But I've got a blank space, baby
And I'll write your name
Verse
Cherry lips, crystal skies
I could show you incredible things
Stolen kisses, pretty lies
You're the King, baby, I'm your Queen
Find out what you want
Be that girl for a month
Wait, the worst is yet to come, oh no
Screaming, crying, perfect storms
I can make all the tables turn
Rose garden filled with thorns
Keep you second guessing like
"Oh my God, who is she?"
I get drunk on jealousy
But you'll come back each time you leave
'Cause, darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream
Chorus
Bridge
Boys only want love if it's torture
Don't say I didn't say, I didn't warn ya
Boys only want love if it's torture
Don't say I didn't say, I didn't warn ya
Chorus
This is incredible wordsmithery (if that is indeed a word) and, regardless of the production put to the song, had it been written 30 years ago people would no doubt be fawning over the lyrical genius. Like her or not, the fact is everyone - and I'm making no exceptions here - on the forum would be hard pressed to conjure up a lyric like this and transform it into a massive pop hit. There's nothing dumbed down or simple about the lyric - it's quite clever and more important incredibly relatable especially in a 21 century context.
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Posted about her in the "Hits of 2016" thread, but I reiterate...
COURTNEY BARNETT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnIhzaDTd0)
I want a thread that's more like "great artists of the 2010s" or something. Hits of just the year 2016 is too restrictive for me. I could do a time frame from 2012 to 2016. Most of what I'm listening to in 2016 at least came out in 2015 and the band is now touring.
I think that Courtney Barnett qualifies.
Also, great artists of the 2010s? Check out the following:
• Fumaça Preta
• Salad Boys
• The Limiñanas
• Family Atlantica
• Rolling Blackouts Coastal Fever
• Cate Le Bon
• Tame Impala
• Best Coast
• Ultimate Painting
• Dick Diver
• The Thons
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.......personal preference does not detract from her skill as a songwriter.
Objectively, she is a great songwriter.
Really?! Don't be silly. There is no objectivity when it comes to any genre of artistic expression. Like beauty, it's all in the eye/ear/mind of the beholder.......and each one beholding brings preconceptions, prejudices and perspectives of his/her own. I listened. She's not a great songwriter from my point of view. It's all subjective......everything is subjective.
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.......personal preference does not detract from her skill as a songwriter.
Objectively, she is a great songwriter.
Really?! Don't be silly. There is no objectivity when it comes to any genre of artistic expression. Like beauty, it's all in the eye/ear/mind of the beholder.......and each one beholding brings preconceptions, prejudices and perspectives of his/her own. I listened. She's not a great songwriter from my point of view. It's all subjective......everything is subjective.
Fair enough.
But she's still a great songwriter.
From my point of view.
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This is incredible wordsmithery (if that is indeed a word) and, regardless of the production put to the song, had it been written 30 years ago people would no doubt be fawning over the lyrical genius.
Incredible? Genius? I see no incredible genius here whatsoever. Yes, there are a couple of interesting and clever lines, but the writing by itself doesn't conjure anything tangible about life or the human condition to me. It just comes across as teenage boys and girls playing at being adults.
If this is your idea of genius writing, then there are hundreds of geniuses, some of which are posting on this very forum.
As for objectivity, I'm going to agree with Buc on this front. Everything in art is subjective, and it's impossible for it to be any other way. The only real measure of greatness is the longevity of a piece of work. If it still speaks to people in a generation's time, then it's in with a shot. Otherwise, it's just slightly above average IN MY OPINION.
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Taylor Swift is indeed a laudable candidate for the 'great' modern songwriter tag. I really hated her old stuff but can't get enough of her more recent stuff - coincidentally since she's teamed up with Max Martin.....
Some people prefer her older stuff but I find her more recent stuff has an edge put on it by Max Martin production. Regardless of the production, her composition and lyric writing is indeed exceptional. Take for example 'Blank Space' the lyrics to which read:
Verse
Nice to meet you, where you been?
I could show you incredible things
Magic, madness, heaven, sin
Saw you there and I thought
Oh my God, look at that face
You look like my next mistake
Love's a game, wanna play?
New money, suit and tie
I can read you like a magazine
Ain't it funny, rumors fly
And I know you heard about me
So hey, let's be friends
I'm dying to see how this one ends
Grab your passport and my hand
I can make the bad guys good for a weekend
Chorus
So it's gonna be forever
Or it's gonna go down in flames
You can tell me when it's over
If the high was worth the pain
Got a long list of ex-lovers
They'll tell you I'm insane
'Cause you know I love the players
And you love the game
'Cause we're young and we're reckless
We'll take this way too far
It'll leave you breathless
Or with a nasty scar
Got a long list of ex-lovers
They'll tell you I'm insane
But I've got a blank space, baby
And I'll write your name
Verse
Cherry lips, crystal skies
I could show you incredible things
Stolen kisses, pretty lies
You're the King, baby, I'm your Queen
Find out what you want
Be that girl for a month
Wait, the worst is yet to come, oh no
Screaming, crying, perfect storms
I can make all the tables turn
Rose garden filled with thorns
Keep you second guessing like
"Oh my God, who is she?"
I get drunk on jealousy
But you'll come back each time you leave
'Cause, darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream
Chorus
Bridge
Boys only want love if it's torture
Don't say I didn't say, I didn't warn ya
Boys only want love if it's torture
Don't say I didn't say, I didn't warn ya
Chorus
This is incredible wordsmithery (if that is indeed a word) and, regardless of the production put to the song, had it been written 30 years ago people would no doubt be fawning over the lyrical genius.
Like her or not, the fact is everyone - and I'm making no exceptions here - on the forum would be hard pressed to conjure up a lyric like this and transform it into a massive pop hit. There's nothing dumbed down or simple about the lyric
- it's quite clever and more important incredibly relatable especially in a 21 century context.
I can write this stuff , i can write a lot better ,as in more arty ...i won't speak for others here ,they can defend themselves... :)
I am familiar with TS earlier music ,and i think these modern songs she 'fronts' are not her creations ,but the Swedish maestro's that 'co-write' ..
She's no genius.
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Posted about her in the "Hits of 2016" thread, but I reiterate...
COURTNEY BARNETT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnIhzaDTd0)
I want a thread that's more like "great artists of the 2010s" or something. Hits of just the year 2016 is too restrictive for me. I could do a time frame from 2012 to 2016. Most of what I'm listening to in 2016 at least came out in 2015 and the band is now touring.
I think that Courtney Barnett qualifies.
Also, great artists of the 2010s? Check out the following:
• Fumaça Preta
• Salad Boys
• The Limiñanas
• Family Atlantica
• Rolling Blackouts Coastal Fever
• Cate Le Bon
• Tame Impala
• Best Coast
• Ultimate Painting
• Dick Diver
• The Thons
TAME IMPALA!!!! They are great. That was definitely one of the top bands I wanted to mention. They are so smooth. I play Let it Happen on repeat. The extended 7 minute version.
I would add (I'll give a few song recs each too):
Savages (post punk)
- Shut up
- Strife
- I am here
- City's Full
- The Answer
Kendrick Lamar (rap)
- Alright
- King Kunta
- i
Algiers (like er experemental soul)
- Blood
- Black Eunuch
Sleaford Mods (punk but sort of stripped back and hip hoppy)
- Job seeker
- Middle men
- Tarantula deadly cargo
Chelsea Wolfe (Gothic folk metal... are all the genres I've seen attached to her. She's definitely gothic - the rest is up to interpretation)
- Iron Moon
- Carrion Flower
- We hit a wall
Clarence Clarity (R&B from hell)
- Those who can't cheat
- Buck toothed particle smashers
- Alive in the Septic tank
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard (pschadelic rock) -HAS SOME PRETTY OLD SKOOL VIBES YOU MAY LIKE
- Just listen to their KEXP set
Baroness (metal)
-Morningstar
-Shock me
- Chlorine and Wine
PJ Harvey (singer songwriter chilled out rock stuff)
- The Wheel
Kamasi Washington (jazz)
- I have no idea what the names of the songs are cos they're all instrumental, I just know you an listen to the whole album on youtube, and so I do.
Lemon Demon (hilarious hilarious hilarious pop, so fun to dance to, and to just listen to his lyrics because he is hilarious)
- Again the whole album is on youtube, and all if it is full on exciting so you can just listen to the first song and you've already got some of the best stuff.
Envy(Japanese post-hardcore... essentially a lot of screaming - generally should be awful, but omg it makes me wanna cry or something) (technically formed in the 90s but I like their latest album)
- Atheist's Cornea album is available in full on youtube too
Tokyo Jihen (Japanese jazz-rock band, also formed before 2010s but they continued till 2012 - so good)
- (no point giving you song names in japanese, so links here)
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That last one was a real cheat cos they're not even still together. But it's the band of my fav singer who's my profile pic so it needed to be in there haha.
Some of this stuff did come out in 2016 actually... I just wouldn't call any of it "hits".
And in terms of Taylor Swift - she is good in that she's going for being snappy and witty and funny. That's all she's going for and she does it pretty well. It's enjoyable but yes, not profound. But that would only be a problem if she was trying to be profound.
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Don't forget Ralph McTell and Wizz Jones have a new album out. Can't see it being bettered by anything else this year. IMHO, of course.
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I can write this stuff , i can write a lot better ,as in more arty ...i won't speak for others here ,they can defend themselves... :)
Far be it from me to disagree with you (which I'm not going to do) but prevailing opinion suggests otherwise.... not only is TS owning the pop charts but she'd plenty of success round Nashville with her early country-pop stuff. You might not aim to write modern pop but you do aim yourself towards Nashville and country-pop - TS has 'made' it there while you, well put simply, haven't.... is the 'industry' wrong and you right? Are the millions that have bought her songs and albums wrong and you right? Your statement is agonisingly close to saying that because you like your own songs better you are a 'better' songwriter than professionals who make millions from it. I'm pretty handy on the football pitch and can bang them in during 5 aside but I wouldn't say I'm better than Messi.....
Also, I remember in a similar thread from a few years back that you said you could write better songs than Gary Barlow - in fact you and your 'musos' were going into studio that week and you said your song would be better (if you've forgotten this amidst fielding calls from record label CEO's that have ditched Gry in favour of you it can be read here: http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6023.15). I distinctly remember this claim because the absurdity of claiming you were better than Gary Barlow was surpassed only by the unmistakable hubris threaded through it.... I admire your confidence but I think there is a serious lack of realism in your view that you are better than established hit writers. Liking your OWN songs better than other people's, much less hit writers, doesn't necessarily make you a better writer- no matter how 'arty' your songs are. Do you classify yourself as a 'great' I'd like to know?
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Incredible? Genius? I see no incredible genius here whatsoever. Yes, there are a couple of interesting and clever lines, but the writing by itself doesn't conjure anything tangible about life or the human condition to me. It just comes across as teenage boys and girls playing at being adults.
If this is your idea of genius writing, then there are hundreds of geniuses, some of which are posting on this very forum.
I still don't buy into your argument that greatness is somehow defined or derived from longevity. 'Blue' by Eiffel 65, 'Barbie Girl' by Aqua, 'Ernie' by Benny Hill, 'Aghadoo', 'Mother Brown' and the 'irdy Song' all have longevity - are they 'great' classics to you?
Also, just like musical 'greatness', 'genius' too is subjective and dependent on how you define it. Some may think that writing poetic lyrics are genius but another side of the argument is that genius is defined by the ability to take really complex ideas and articulate them in really simple terms. Is that not what Swift does/ has done in that lyric?
If is something a little more highbrow then surely at least Ellie Goulding is a modern 'great'. Take 'The Writer' for example:
Verse
You wait for a silence
I wait for a word
Lying next to your frame
Girl unobserved
You change your position
And you're changing me
Casting these shadows
Where they shouldn't be
We're interrupted
By the heat of the sun
Trying to prevent
What's already begun
You're just a body
I can smell your skin
And when I feel it
You're wearing thin
But I've got a plan
Chorus
Why don't you be the artist
And make me out of clay?
Why don't you be the writer?
And decide the words I say?
'Cause I'd rather pretend
I'll still be there at the end
Only it's too hard to ask
Won't you try to help me?
Verse
Sat on your sofa
It's all broken springs
This isn't the place for
Those violin strings
I try out a smile
And I aim it at you
You must have missed it
You always do
But I've got a plan
Chorus
Bridge
You wait
I wait
Casting shadows
Interrupted
You wait
I wait
Casting shadows
Interrupted
You wait
I wait
Casting shadows
Interrupted
You wait
I wait
Casting shadows
Chorus
That's a damn impressive lyric IMHO and again would anyone on here be complaining if they'd written it and got the success Ellie has from it? As I said previously, yes there is 'greatness' in profound arty songs but surely there's a different type of 'greatness' in more simple modern songs too.
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I think your head is easily turned by celebrity artists,who are not without talent , but not the best even amongst their contemporaries .
I can go toe to toe with the likes of Taylor Swift.. i simply can ,you might consider that hubris , to me it is my opinion.
There's an undercurrent of resentment with some members against those that go beyond 'bedroom status' songwriting , or musical ambition.
There's many writers out there ,artists etc ..that know they are better than many in the mainstream.
''Liking your OWN songs better than other people's, much less hit writers, doesn't necessarily make you a better writer- no matter how 'arty' your songs are. Do you classify yourself as a 'great' I'd like to know?''
Once again you make replies ,that don't reflect the OP views, Tone called you out did he not , Strawman arguments.
For the record ,i don't think my songs are better or worse than hit writers , Great,me? it's not possible.
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I still don't buy into your argument that greatness is somehow defined or derived from longevity. 'Blue' by Eiffel 65, 'Barbie Girl' by Aqua, 'Ernie' by Benny Hill, 'Aghadoo', 'Mother Brown' and the 'irdy Song' all have longevity - are they 'great' classics to you?
Of course not. And once again I get the feeling you're being deliberately obtuse. The point I'm trying to make is that the songs you referenced may still be 'popular' by some definition, but they're not considered greats - by me or anyone else.
The Ellie Goulding lyric is certainly more interesting and more evocative of something beyond the words themselves, and I definitely prefer it to the Taylor Swift song. Is it great? Not in my opinion. But then, the lyric is only half the song. Yesterday by Paul McCartney isn't the world's greatest lyric, but combined with the melody and performance, it's a pretty great song.
You like modern pop. I get it. Please stop trying to tell me how great it is.
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You like modern pop. I get it. Please stop trying to tell me how great it is.
Correction - I freaking LOVE modern pop!!!! I do like other stuff but - oddly enough listening to some Ewan McColl when typing this.
In the interests of musical science I would love to set you a task where you have to collab with someone like Boydie who is geared towards modern pop with the aim of you writing a popular modern pop song. I imagine you'd rather shite on your hands and clap but I think it'd change your attitude towards the likes of Taylor Swift.
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I think your head is easily turned by celebrity artists,who are not without talent , but not the best even amongst their contemporaries .
I can go toe to toe with the likes of Taylor Swift.. i simply can ,you might consider that hubris , to me it is my opinion.
There's an undercurrent of resentment with some members against those that go beyond 'bedroom status' songwriting , or musical ambition.
There's many writers out there ,artists etc ..that know they are better than many in the mainstream.
''Liking your OWN songs better than other people's, much less hit writers, doesn't necessarily make you a better writer- no matter how 'arty' your songs are. Do you classify yourself as a 'great' I'd like to know?''
Once again you make replies ,that don't reflect the OP views, Tone called you out did he not , Strawman arguments.
For the record ,i don't think my songs are better or worse than hit writers , Great,me? it's not possible.
It's hardly a straw person argument - it's an indepth discourse analysis. Speaking of being called out before, you were called out re the Gary Barlow post but that hasn't stopped you claiming to be better than Taylor Swift....
On what conceivable level can you go toe to toe with Taylor Swift? How do we judge who wins this bout? Opinion - well clearly you'd win? Sales, exposure, reputation, downloads, awards - well the towel would be thrown in even before the bell rings in favour of Taylor!
And it's not about 'resentment' at those wanting to go beyond bedroom writer status. Loads of people on here have that ambition - it's admirable and there's nothing wrong with it. In fact I rate the songs of several forumites and reckon they've got damn good potential- Boydie has produced some fairly commercial sounding stuff, Alan Starkie has done likewise with more MoR pop, Jess was insanely gifted at pop song writing. None of them had the temerity to say they were better than Gary Barlow though.... The issue is claiming consistently to be better than hit writers with absolutely nothing other than your own opinion to back it up.
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What i mean is , i can match her lyric writing.I know you can't, and i know you know you can't ,your modesty is therefore commendable and worthy of mention....i do 'hobnob' with the music world in the most minor of realms ,admittedly - but i get some reaction...keeps my hubris bubbling away. :D
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Correction - I freaking LOVE modern pop!!!! I do like other stuff but - oddly enough listening to some Ewan McColl when typing this.
In the interests of musical science I would love to set you a task where you have to collab with someone like Boydie who is geared towards modern pop with the aim of you writing a popular modern pop song. I imagine you'd rather shite on your hands and clap but I think it'd change your attitude towards the likes of Taylor Swift.
Actually I'd be up for it. Believe it or not, I like pop music. Just not the lyrics or songs of the artists in the charts at the moment - with a couple of notable exceptions. For example, I thought Royals by Lorde was a pretty fantastic song all round - lyrically, melodically, and the production was wonderfully sparse. I also think that thinking out loud by Ed Sheeran is a pretty damn good song. Not such a huge fan of the lyrics, but they serve the song well. But it moves along very satisfyingly from a musical point of view, and again, the production doesn't suffer from overwhelming compression issues. I don't think collaborating on a pop song would change my feelings toward Taylor Swift though. I respect her talent, I just don't think she's 'great'.
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On a slight tangent, this woulda been a hell of convo to have on the podcast....
Who says you can match her lyric writing? You? Again that's your own opinion and it's equally as singular and unsubstantiated as your view that I can't match her. Do I think I'm on a par with Taylor - absolutely not. Do I think you're on par with her (wrap that ego up nice and tightly in cotton wool for this one) - HELL NO! The sooner you realise that your own perception of being better that Gary Barlow and Taylor Swift is completely immaterial to the 'industry' who will determine that for themselves the better for you.
What has 'hobnobing' in the music world got to do with anything? I've communicated with people in the 'industry' too - I don't feel the need to shout about it all over the forum nor do I see it as indication that I'm better than Taylor Swift or Gary Barlow or [whichever chart topping writer you want to say next]. Any way what exactly has your hobnobing amounted to? A Grammy? A platinum selling single? Or a lot of money spent on getting demos produced of songs that while no doubt good didn't cut the mustard at the level the industry demanded?
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Actually I'd be up for it. Believe it or not, I like pop music. Just not the lyrics or songs of the artists in the charts at the moment - with a couple of notable exceptions. For example, I thought Royals by Lorde was a pretty fantastic song all round - lyrically, melodically, and the production was wonderfully sparse. I also think that thinking out loud by Ed Sheeran is a pretty damn good song. Not such a huge fan of the lyrics, but they serve the song well. But it moves along very satisfyingly from a musical point of view, and again, the production doesn't suffer from overwhelming compression issues. I don't think collaborating on a pop song would change my feelings toward Taylor Swift though. I respect her talent, I just don't think she's 'great'.
I reckon you'd pull the Ed Sheeran stuff off easily enough but that's more the singer songwriter style that some of your own stuff (which I rate by the way...) nods towards.
I'm thinking of making it a little more onerous like saying you've to stick to the 4 chord trick, it's to be at 120 bpm and you're only allowed 4/4 kick and 4/4 clap and kick combo. That type of thing to really take you out of your comfort zone. I'm genuinely fascinated to see what the modern pop lovechild of Tone and Boydie would sound like - I think it'd be a fairly left off field electro-pop track.
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Actually I'd be up for it. Believe it or not, I like pop music. Just not the lyrics or songs of the artists in the charts at the moment - with a couple of notable exceptions. For example, I thought Royals by Lorde was a pretty fantastic song all round - lyrically, melodically, and the production was wonderfully sparse. I also think that thinking out loud by Ed Sheeran is a pretty damn good song. Not such a huge fan of the lyrics, but they serve the song well. But it moves along very satisfyingly from a musical point of view, and again, the production doesn't suffer from overwhelming compression issues. I don't think collaborating on a pop song would change my feelings toward Taylor Swift though. I respect her talent, I just don't think she's 'great'.
I'll help them write the song as well(if they want) ...reckon i can come up with something ,that will be right up her street...you see even if i can't write to the highest level , i can write a full set of lyrics that go with any commercial song composition ..done it.
I reckon you'd pull the Ed Sheeran stuff off easily enough but that's more the singer songwriter style that some of your own stuff (which I rate by the way...) nods towards.
I'm thinking of making it a little more onerous like saying you've to stick to the 4 chord trick, it's to be at 120 bpm and you're only allowed 4/4 kick and 4/4 clap and kick combo. That type of thing to really take you out of your comfort zone. I'm genuinely fascinated to see what the modern pop lovechild of Tone and Boydie would sound like - I think it'd be a fairly left off field electro-pop track.
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Quite the climb down - you've gone from being better than Gary Barlow and Taylor Swift (those at the higesht level of commercial songwriting) to now being someone who 'can't write to the highest level [but] can write a full set of lyrics that go with any commercial song composition' in less than 2 hours. I know they say showbiz is a bitch and that careers aren't made to last but that time frame is taking the pish.....
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Quite the climb down - you've gone from being better than Gary Barlow and Taylor Swift (those at the higesht level of commercial songwriting) to now being someone who 'can't write to the highest level [but] can write a full set of lyrics that go with any commercial song composition' in less than 2 hours. I know they say showbiz is a bitch and that careers aren't made to last but that time frame is taking the pish.....
No that was a little concession to you. the facts are, i don't write at the highest levels do i. I'm writing something now!
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I think it's really a shame that music and musicians suffer from and are almost forced into a competitive mindset. It's rarely good for the creative process when you're outside of the world of a career musician.
I don't doubt there are many people in the world who can write a 'better' lyric than Taylor Swift. But being successful in the music business is about so much more than being a good lyricist/ songwriter/ musician. A certain temperament is required. Janis Joplin nailed it when she said to her parents in a letter that 'star quality' is about a need to be famous, a drive to be seen because once you reach a certain level of talent, which many, many have, there's nothing really to differentiate one person from another musically. I'm paraphrasing, but it rings true. You need to be good enough, and bloody determined. But you don't need to be the best.
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Well said Tone...
Actually i have a song , this was a Co-write between me and the studio producer..and my brief was for it to be done in a Taylor Swift style (country Taylor that is) , i gave him a guide video and together we decided on instrumentation. ..i think it came out pretty good .
https://soundcloud.com/songsthatcry/all-night-long-m-1
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I agree with a lot of what you say. For me it's a bit like the 'luck' argument - ie people getting their big break. I've often felt this sells those you got 'lucky' short - yes they'd an opportunity but they had to be good enough to capitalise on it with some level of talent. I think it's a matter of tempering your aims and aspiration with a healthy dose of realism - as Tone says you only have to be good enough not the best but being 'good enough' is no small feat. The only way to get better is to study the craft of those who are where you wanna be and work damn hard to get as close to that as you can not proclaiming to the world and its wife that you're better than people who have made millions and do this for a living.
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Well said Tone...
Actually i have a song , this was a Co-write between me and the studio producer..and my brief was for it to be done in a Taylor Swift style (country Taylor that is) , i gave him a guide video and together we decided on instrumentation. ..i think it came out pretty good .
https://soundcloud.com/songsthatcry/all-night-long-m-1
That as the case may be Taylor Swift doesn't do 'pretty good' , she does chart topping. The songs pretty decent admittedly (except for the title - that made me think of that c&^t Lionel Ritchie!). The old vocal is pretty nice on the ear.
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She's called Amber-rose...not the very famous one...mind you.!
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STC has reminded me, one of the signs of a great songwriter is the number of people who copy your style.
Taylor Swift has many imitators. She will be around for many more years and will be seen as one of the great song writers in the future by the music industry.
The fact that I don't particularly like her music will have no effect on her legacy.
Interesting discussion though.
Here's some more food for thought. How great were those British songwriters Nicky Chinn and Mike Chapman?
I'm off to work my way through some of Helena's recommendations. I'm not sure I'd put PJ Harvey as chilled out rock stuff though.
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Yeah I don't think anyone can claim to be as good as Taylor Swift. We all probably write some more "profound" lyrics but she's not looking for that. She could do that too, I'm sure she could. But she wants to be famous as Tone said, and she knows how to perfectly sculpt songs that are catchy and really really really chart-toppingly succesful. Most of us wouldn't be able to do that. That is a total genius compared to most songwriters. Once you put her amongst the ranks of all those that have acheived that however... then it becomes very very subjective. I would like to say in my opinion though, Ellie Goulding is far below Taylor Swift.
And oh I don't know what the hell to call PJ I'm sorry, I hate genres I don't understand them properly.
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I think this is a great discussion and kudos to everyone for making their steely points (and occasional low blows ::)) without flying off the handle and getting too personal with each other - it really does feel like a "down the pub" discussion over some beers (which is fitting as we are in the bar)
We are back to the definition of "good" (or "great") in such a subjective world as songwriting
The one thing I do know is that "great" songs are not always hits and hit songs are not always great
HOWEVER, I will climb off the fence and say that my personal opinion is that the things hit songs and great songs have in common is that they use similar "features", "rules" and "techniques" that engage the listener and draws them in to the song
Whether it is a natural ability by a "great" (Dylan, Beatles, Paul Simon) or an applied science (Motown, Tin Pan Alley, Dr Luke, Max Martin et al.) for me many of the techniques are the same and the songs that engage me, whether it is lyrically, melodically or something I can't pin down are the ones that I consider are great - which may be a classic or the lastest cheesey pop hit
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It's a good discussion but defining great for contemporary artists is very subjective and personal. After fifty years, give or take, it becomes less so because history will judge for us, but to judge current artists is always going to be personal and hence turning it into a competition feels pointless to me. Take the competitions we hold here - my choices have never ever won, or even been placed, but I know my votes have gone to the greatest songs because I'm right and anyone who voted differently is wrong ;)...so it proves competition is not a valid way of determining greatness.
This discussion seems very pop music based, and also very results (i.e. sales) orientated and I must say I don't see the correlation. Just because one songwriter is at the top of the charts and another is in their bedroom doesn't mean one is a better writer (it could mean that, but it's not a given). There are so many other factors - time, luck, looks, geography, payola, pushy parents, famous parents, parents with the money to trot their kids round dance and singing and acting classes, desire, chosen genre (it goes without saying that folk and blues and fingerpicking acoustic are the most noble of genres and pop song-writing doesn't even come close... ;)) and so on. So for me, record sales in the charts are an irrelevant measure of greatness.
I have nothing against Taylor Swift - I've heard a few of her songs and they were pleasant enough, but none of them made me want to go out and buy her records. But then I'm not her target market. I'm forty years too old. There are, however, songs that I've heard on this very site that I would go out and buy - I can recall half a dozen or so absolutely outstanding songs, and I've only been here a few months. For me, those are better songs than most current pop songs that I hear on my commute. Simple as that. The songs here that I'm referring to make more of a connection with who I am, where I come from, what I've seen and done and so on. That's what great song-writing is (again, to me, YMMV) - it's about touching people, moving people, making connections, building emotional involvement, and that's why a twenty-something year old girl is going to appeal to some people and a fifty year old man is going to appeal to others. They're potentially both great songwriters, but they're both great to a different set of people.
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Great discussion guys.
I think I'm in the delb0y camp. It's all about time and how you want to spend it esp for someone my age :) Years ago I started creating crossword puzzles instead of solving them. This was after realizing that every existing crossword puzzle already had a solution - I was just wasting my time figuring out what it was. I feel somewhat the same about music now. I've heard thousands of artists/songs in my life so listening to the pop charts seems like I'm just figuring out that formula that I've learned so many times before. Like Boydie says - similar rules. Mind you, I still love a GOOD pop song for how they make me feel. (Uptown Funk comes to mind - stolen from The Sequence :))
Is great songwriting gone? I don't think so. It's just gone into hiding in forums like this ;)
Paul
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Wow I just realised no-one mentioned Hozier and I didn't either!
I think he's a decent candidate for an actually good and very popular singer songwriter of current times. Take Me to Church is amazingly emotional, gets in your head, and was chart topping.
I like Take Me to Church obviously and Jackie and Wilson most.
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And oh I don't know what the hell to call PJ I'm sorry, I hate genres I don't understand them properly.
You don't have to call her anything. My cd collection is arranged in blues (old school), reggae, classical and everything else. All in alphabetical order.
I really like PJ Harvey's early cds. "Chilled out rock" is the last thing I'd have thought of to describe the music :)
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Wow I just realised no-one mentioned Hozier and I didn't either!
I think he's a decent candidate for an actually good and very popular singer songwriter of current times. Take Me to Church is amazingly emotional, gets in your head, and was chart topping.
I like Take Me to Church obviously and Jackie and Wilson most.
Massive + 1 to Hozier. He is amazing. Oddly enough Jackie and Wilson floats my boat too - it's actually my favourite song of his. 'Take me to church' speaks for itself but I'm more a fan of 'Someone New'. I think it's very well crafted lyrically, musically it is very interesting and it's got a real authentic feel to it production wise. He's got other top notch, perhaps less known songs, like 'from Eden' and 'Work song' that I really rate.
Good call Helena!!!!
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Wow I just realised no-one mentioned Hozier and I didn't either!
I think he's a decent candidate for an actually good and very popular singer songwriter of current times. Take Me to Church is amazingly emotional, gets in your head, and was chart topping.
I like Take Me to Church obviously and Jackie and Wilson most.
Massive + 1 to Hozier. He is amazing. Oddly enough Jackie and Wilson floats my boat too - it's actually my favourite song of his. 'Take me to church' speaks for itself but I'm more a fan of 'Someone New'. I think it's very well crafted lyrically, musically it is very interesting and it's got a real authentic feel to it production wise. He's got other top notch, perhaps less known songs, like 'from Eden' and 'Work song' that I really rate.
Good call Helena!!!!
Someone new is good too, but I prefer Take Me to Church. Shout out to Radio 1 Breakfast by the way, since they turned me on to Jackie and Wilson. They really are useful, people. Also there are a couple of these songwriter guys I fogot:
- James Bay
- Tom Odell
Are also both very good. Tom Odell's Another Love is just insane - that is a truly great song no doubt. I could listen to it forever. I can barely bare to listen to other music after I listen to it.
I enjoy Birdy too. Mostly People Help the People though, which I think is a cover... Of her newest album, I quite like Beautiful Lies.
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Am I the only one that thinks Take me to church sounds like two songs bolted together? The verse on its own is good, I like it. The chorus on its own is exceptional. Great melody, great lyric, very atmospheric. But the two together, just doesn't hold. The transition to the chorus feels so clumsy to me...
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Am I the only one that thinks Take me to church sounds like two songs bolted together? The verse on its own is good, I like it. The chorus on its own is exceptional. Great melody, great lyric, very atmospheric. But the two together, just doesn't hold. The transition to the chorus feels so clumsy to me...
I've never really thought about that until you mentioned it. Maybe that's the beauty of it - sounding like it's 2 songs bolted together a la Bohemian Rhapsody. It's a great song but it's far from his best IMHO. You should check out his other stuff - I think it might appeal to your musical taste.
I'm gonna give Sia a mention as another great modern songwriter. 'Fire meets gasoline' is a phenomenally profound lyric IMHO (check them out here:http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/sia/firemeetgasoline.html) and equally so is 'Cheap Thrills' (although I hate the version with that clown Sean Paul in it. Se's other great songs like 'Chandelier', 'She Wolf' and 'Elastic Heart'. Very deep lyrics matched by unbelievable toplining and vocal delivery.
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'Fire meets gasoline' is a phenomenally profound lyric IMHO
Whut? phenomenally profound?!? Really?!? A lyric pleading for sex is profound these days?!
Sheesh.
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It's how that plea is articulated. Any anyway, other 'great' but perhaps not 'profound' songs were also pleas for sex - 'Let's get it on' by Marvin Gaye being just one example....
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Yeah, but no one proclaims Let's Get It On to be profound. It's just a silly love song like so many others..........very good, perhaps great.......but not profound.
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I do NOT think that there are more "great songs" written in any one period than another period.
I don't agree that there are fewer "great songs" being written today. I'm all over the internet listening to obscure artists who I think are writing great songs.
What HAS changed is what is getting promoted and put over the airwaves. But that doesn't mean great songs aren't currently being written. It just means that they aren't being heard.
If you study music through the ages (beginning around 1900 for the sake of argument) yuo find great songs in every era. Guantanemera was written in 1902, and it's still fresh and viable. Heck, "As Shye Moved Through the Faire has been covered and re-written so often that it's unlikely that anyone hasn't heard bits and pieces of it . . . and it's hundreds of years old unless I'm mistaken.
If you actually take a hard look at songs produced since the era of radio began (the era of "mass listening," there are no "dead spots" or decades (or even years) when nothing noteworthy was written and produced.
Django Rheinhardt and Bob Wills were doing things in the forties that fit right into today's listening tastes. You just have to go find them.
Since the radio age began, nearly 40% of "hit songs" (i.e. top 100 songs) have been written by "one hit wonders" -- writers who never have another hit. Look it up if you don't believe me. That means that great songs are NOT being produced only by "great writers." Never have been.
Okay... now I'm down off my soap box.
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hardtwistmusic has got goooood points.
I find it strange that the charts are so so devoid of interesting different music these days. I was listening to Siouxsie and the Banshees yesterday and found out on the official charts website that "Dear Prudence" got to no. 3 and was thinking... no weird screechy goth lady would manage that these days. Not that she wouldn't exist, she would just be a small indie artist.
I find people to be rather unadventurous these days. I feel like in my lifetime... small changes in whats in style have happened but nothing particularly exciting has broken out there. In the 70s and 80s, it seems every minute some new weird thing is emerging. The rise of EDM seems like the most significant thing that's happened in my lifetime and that doesn't even mean much, except that we've finally escaped the cheesy faked-up 90s mimicking phase of the early 2000s and the nondescript phase that no-one can possibly describe from 2009-2015. Please, someone describe to me that phase in music. I suppose the one thing that came out of that phase was a quiet rejection of the extreme fakery of the previous period (e.g. Britney Spears).
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I think there's plenty of very adventurous stuff taking place - but if you're expecting all this adventure to be reflected in the charts you'll likely be disappointed. The pop charts represent just the tiniest sliver of today's (and yesterday's) music.
There's also the issue of streaming now being counted towards chart "sales" and this has resulted in a very different set of results to anything that the charts has previously enjoyed.
I quote from this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36794105 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36794105):
"Drake has been hogging the limelight for three months.
On Friday, the star's single notched up a 14th week at number one - meaning he could soon break the Bryan Adams barrier, and become the UK's longest-running chart topper.
But behind that huge success lies another story, because One Dance isn't the best-selling record of the last seven days. It isn't even in the top 10.
In fact, Drake's single only topped the sales-only chart in the first three weeks of its reign. It's only the inclusion of streaming data (where 100 plays count as one sale) that has given him a lock on the number one spot. And that's something that's starting to worry the music industry, because now that the charts measure consumption rather than purchases, they have practically ground to a halt.
In the first six months of 2016, there were 86 new entries in the UK singles chart. Ten years ago, that figure was 230. "
The highlights are mine. The article is well worth a read if you're interested in chart music.
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Yeah I agree there is some adventurous stuff going on. I didn't mean artists aren't adventurous, I meant the industry and consumers aren't. I'm sure there are modern day equivelants in weirdness to a screeching goth lady and such, and this is the sort of thing I like to search out, but it won't ever get in the charts.
Omg wow.... I fucking hate streaming. Streaming rips off artists and breeds even more non commital fans, which is hardly what is needed in this ADD climate. But this makes me even more angry. That's like basing the charts on every time someone plays a song ever!!! You can't do that! Songs that came out decades ago would still be in the top ten then! Oh god this is chaos.
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Yeah I agree there is some adventurous stuff going on. I didn't mean artists aren't adventurous, I meant the industry and consumers aren't. I'm sure there are modern day equivelants in weirdness to a screeching goth lady and such, and this is the sort of thing I like to search out, but it won't ever get in the charts.
Omg wow.... I fucking hate streaming. Streaming rips off artists and breeds even more non commital fans, which is hardly what is needed in this ADD climate. But this makes me even more angry. That's like basing the charts on every time someone plays a song ever!!! You can't do that! Songs that came out decades ago would still be in the top ten then! Oh god this is chaos.
Nothing wrong with chaos.
Dear Prudence was a classic Beatles' song so its not surprising it was a hit. She also covered Dylan/Danko's This Wheel's on Fire. Although she didn't realise it was a Dylan/Danko song. If you have time check out the version by Julie Driscoll and Brian Auger, which is the version Siouxsie took her version from.
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Nothing wrong with chaos.
Dear Prudence was a classic Beatles' song so its not surprising it was a hit. She also covered Dylan/Danko's This Wheel's on Fire. Although she didn't realise it was a Dylan/Danko song. If you have time check out the version by Julie Driscoll and Brian Auger, which is the version Siouxsie took her version from.
I want crazed punk chaos not apathetic corporate lead chaos. Spotify...
And why thank you for the knowledge. I still don't think it would've got top 10 now, though.
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Nothing wrong with chaos.
Dear Prudence was a classic Beatles' song so its not surprising it was a hit. She also covered Dylan/Danko's This Wheel's on Fire. Although she didn't realise it was a Dylan/Danko song. If you have time check out the version by Julie Driscoll and Brian Auger, which is the version Siouxsie took her version from.
I want crazed punk chaos not apathetic corporate lead chaos. Spotify...
And why thank you for the knowledge. I still don't think it would've got top 10 now, though.
Knowledge comes with age and being around when Siouxsie and the Banshee's released their first single, its still sitting in my collection of vinyl 45s, ready to be handed over when I die. The joys of owning music rather than renting it from Spotify.
It may not get into the top 10 now, but then it was part of a movement with a number of similar artists tasting success. The pop charts will change again, and who knows we may see something similar gracing our charts in the future. Always look on the bright side of life.
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Knowledge comes with age . . .
I just KNEW there was something good about being old.
I mean aside from the senior discounts. 'o)
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Knowledge comes with age and being around when Siouxsie and the Banshee's released their first single, its still sitting in my collection of vinyl 45s, ready to be handed over when I die. The joys of owning music rather than renting it from Spotify.
It may not get into the top 10 now, but then it was part of a movement with a number of similar artists tasting success. The pop charts will change again, and who knows we may see something similar gracing our charts in the future. Always look on the bright side of life.
I don't use Spotify. Or Itunes, because I dislike Apple. Everyone seems bloody brainwashed by Apple, like they wuldn't even bother to own a phone if it wasn't an iPhone. One of my favourite bands' singers has a show on a paid for Apple Music radio station and it makes me very angry because there is no way I'm gonna be subscribing to an Apple service. I wrote a poem where I had a bit of a jab at apple.
I buy CDs. I don't buy vinyl because I don't have the money to go buy a record player when I can already play my music on CDs. I rip the CDs and whala! I can use it just like mp3s on all my digital devices but I have the little box with the photos and the lyrics and things (when I rip mp3s though, I do it in the highest possible quality, which is about twice as good as the quality you get from itunes).
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I don't use Spotify. Or Itunes, because I dislike Apple. Everyone seems bloody brainwashed by Apple, like they wuldn't even bother to own a phone if it wasn't an iPhone. One of my favourite bands' singers has a show on a paid for Apple Music radio station and it makes me very angry because there is no way I'm gonna be subscribing to an Apple service. I wrote a poem where I had a bit of a jab at apple.
I buy CDs. I don't buy vinyl because I don't have the money to go buy a record player when I can already play my music on CDs. I rip the CDs and whala! I can use it just like mp3s on all my digital devices but I have the little box with the photos and the lyrics and things (when I rip mp3s though, I do it in the highest possible quality, which is about twice as good as the quality you get from itunes).
CDs didn't exist when I was a young lad.
The advantage of vinyl or cds over I-tunes, Spotify and the rest was you got to hear all the songs rather than the most popular tracks. Gave you a better impression of the qualities of the songwriters and always surrendered some hidden gems.
The other advantage was playing records was often a collective experience with your friends. As was trawling through your friends record collections. Whilst I'm sure the internet allows elements of that to continue its not really the same as being in the same room hearing the same thing in different ways and discussing it afterwards.
I hope you keep listening to music how the artists wanted you to hear it.