The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Bar => Topic started by: The Corsair on August 21, 2011, 11:43:42 AM
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I have to comment in this somewhere.
Everywhere on this forum the average songs deems to be love-based in some way. Have we not discussed the perils of writing love songs enough or have people ignored them?
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I don't think any of my songs are love-based...
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I don't see anything perilous about writing love songs! I embrace many themes in my writing. Equally, I'm happy to include my feelings about love in the songs that I write!
Paul
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It's a strong emotion certainly but it's overdone and honestly gets boring. It's difficult to be original with the whole concept and the same sh!t keeps getting pedaled out (this is everywhere, not just the forum)
I know that a lot of the stuff here is not love-based and that which is love-based is mostly original and good but cringingly often I find another generic love song here.
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Personally I don't get the whole rubbishng of love songs, I think you should be free to write about what you want
There seems to be this theory that you are a deeper more important writer if you dont write about love, I do not subscribe to that at all
Some of the best songs ever written have been about love and I dont get the correlation between average song and love song - surly there isn't one
I fully respect all songs posted on this forum - it takes a certain degree of balls to put a song up here - lyrics and music. Sure I might not like them all but that's my taste.
Sorry Corsair I think you are way off beam with this post my friend ;D
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ooo controversial! ;) although an interesting point Corsair and one I've encountered a lot in the past.
I was once told by a songwriter friend (male) not to write love songs because i'm a girl and its to over done/cheesy. But I don't think it's so much the theme that is cliche but the same lyrics that get reused over and over again when approaching it.
I think you can still write a decent love song, you've just got to work that bit harder to be original.
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ooo controversial! ;) although an interesting point Corsair and one I've encountered a lot in the past.
I was once told by a songwriter friend (male) not to write love songs because i'm a girl and its to over done/cheesy. But I don't think it's so much the theme that is cliche but the same lyrics that get reused over and over again when approaching it.
I think you can still write a decent love song, you've just got to work that bit harder to be original.
I agree with you there.
I find the issue is that so many songwriters do love songs and even though many of the world's best songs are love songs there are thousands more that aren't that great or are just plain terrible. I do criticise friends who jump straight to love as something to write about as it's something that you're only really going to get wrong until you have real experience or have built up more knowledge as a songwriter.
Love as a theme in songs seems to be a top level and bottom level thing... The worst songwriters write generic songs about love and the best write amazing songs about love. Perhaps the image of those amazing love songs is what encourages people to try and write them too often...
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I thought this was an intriguing suggestion. That love is such a commonly addressed theme, maybe its becoming harder and harder to write songs about. It made me think of the songs that ive posted on here which ive realised all seem to address love in some form or another except for one of them. I'm looking for constructive criticism on all of them so feel free to check them out. They are: Sleepless Nights, The Mermaid Wronged, Red Deep Red, and Kill Grief.
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I think there's something worth exploring here. And I think it's related to a lot of would-be songwriters having nothing to say, or having not found their voice. I don't mean that in a critical or derogatory way. I just mean, if you find yourself wanting to write a song, it's probably tempting to pick love as the subject matter because it's something we've all experienced. Unfortunately, if not done well a love song tends to suffer more than a song about something else, because a love song needs some integrity and a strong personal touch to make it work.
I also think a lot of love songs get written when relationships break down, and the heartbroken protagonist needs an outlet for their grief. So they write a song. And often, they're so entwined with their own heartache that they lose perspective in the songwriting process. The end result sounds self-indulgent and often corny - but because of their emotional investment, the writer often can't see it.
It's one of the reasons I don't write love songs - it's so difficult to get right. But I probably touch on love in a lot of my songs - but don't have it as a central theme. Besides, I like to surprise my audience ;)
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It's not MY fault that the moon hits her eyes like a big pizza pie!
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Mr.Chainsaw,
Great comment, that really made me smile! :)
Paul
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Glad I could be irriverant, Paul ;)
As regards the subject,
I'm a chef by trade. I'm sure you've all heard it said before, but there are similarites between food and music. Specifically, there's only so many ingredients in the world.
No ones inventing new vegetables to eat. No ones breeding new animals to taste. What we've got is pretty much all there will be.
The same with words and emotions. No ones invented a new form of love. It's the same emotion our species has been experiancing over and over again through history. And no ones inventing new words to express this age-old emotion (I'm not accepting bromance).
So, why bother writing?
Why bother cooking?
Because we still crave these things. We still yearn for the unrequited bacon, the acidic tang of tomato rejection, the crisp freshness of lettucey acceptance. We want it delivered in a warm, crusty well structured song.
Our needs haven't changed over the centurys. Only how we articulate them. If the passion and the sincerity are there, we will always relate to it. And that song, like the emotion, will be timeless.
...shit, I really fancy a BLT right about now
Peter
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Glad I could be irriverant, Paul ;)
As regards the subject,
I'm a chef by trade. I'm sure you've all heard it said before, but there are similarites between food and music. Specifically, there's only so many ingredients in the world.
No ones inventing new vegetables to eat. No ones breeding new animals to taste. What we've got is pretty much all there will be.
The same with words and emotions. No ones invented a new form of love. It's the same emotion our species has been experiancing over and over again through history. And no ones inventing new words to express this age-old emotion (I'm not accepting bromance).
So, why bother writing?
Why bother cooking?
Because we still crave these things. We still yearn for the unrequited bacon, the acidic tang of tomato rejection, the crisp freshness of lettucey acceptance. We want it delivered in a warm, crusty well structured song.
Our needs haven't changed over the centurys. Only how we articulate them. If the passion and the sincerity are there, we will always relate to it. And that song, like the emotion, will be timeless.
...shit, I really fancy a BLT right about now
Peter
True (especially the BLT part :P ) but the over-saturation in love songs would be like if almost every chef opened/worked at and Italian restaurant.
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I love Italian ;)
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I love Italian ;)
Well played... :P
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;D
Its all good fun Corsair, nothing wrong with stirring it up a bit now and again ;)
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Haha yeah
Chainsaw does make a decent point though.
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Well, if you're a bit off love songs then maybe we should point you towards some alternatives:
Red Barchetta - Rush (which you could argue is about someone in love with a car...)
Bantam Cock - Jake Thackray (come to think of it, that's about a randy chicken...)
Two Librans - The Fall (not a clue what that's about...)
Chronologie 4 - Jean Michelle Jarre (that's an instrumental so could be about anything...)
Ace of Spades - Motorhead (there you are, absolutely nothing to do with love whatsoever...)
If I think of any more I'll get back to you.
Chris
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yes yes yes to those who say embarace love songs. What experience transcends language, cultures, age, social and economic circumstances? that is why they always have been written and always will be!
The trick is the spin you put on it, or the REAL experience that is put into it. I'm hopeless at lyrics which is why I have to work with others.
When I was 18 I used to have massive arguments with my sisters. I was into U2, they were into Kylie Minogue and Jason Donovan. I would put pop down (the vast majority of which is based on relationships), but oh how wrong I was!!! Listen (or just remind yourself!) of Lennon's "Woman" and "Starting Over" for how immense the subject can be. Or listen to Neil Diamond "Love on the Rocks" for a masterclass in songwriting, the list is endless.....
:)
Chris
www.chrislong.me.uk
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oh, and there can be some ABSOLUTELY CRAP love songs written that make you want to pull your ears off ;D
(but thats the same with everything!)
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To all of you who write songs that are NOT about love
What do you write about?
I looked through my songs and found that about 55% are about love and 45% are not.
The other subjects I have written about include:
Self belief
Leaving home
Being an individual
Childhood
Not giving in
Getting away from the usual routine
A fairer world
Living for today
Air ambulance
Does anybody know what the next most popular subject matter is in commercial songs after love?
Justin
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I write about all sorts of things, though rarely directly, such as:
Religion and my opinions on it
The ridiculousness of 'teen love'
Closed-mindedness
Changing fashion trends
Leaving this country
Music vs Drama vs Academia
Hard Drugs
'Government conspiracies' and whether or not them being real changes anything
A WWII soldier who finds his marriage to be a reason to not commit suicide
My leaving school a year early
The Russian Revolution
The list goes on really, I find plenty of things to write about outside of love (as in 'I love you' songs)
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I think that probably 90% of songs ever written are concerned with love in some way or another whether for a person or something else, even those which do not necessarily appear to be so.